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Author Topic: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon  (Read 7978 times)

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Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #14 from previous page: December 10, 2009, 03:14:52 PM »
@Crumb

I don't think it's a fair statement to say "their pride and ego" prevented scsi support.  Unless you have claims to back that up?

How about politely asking Ralph Schmidt for blizzard ppc scsi documentation?  See what kind of response you get.
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline Framiga

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2009, 07:05:34 PM »
even if asking to Laire would be an option, remember that AOS4 is a commercial product.

"politely asking Ralph Schmidt for blizzard ppc scsi documentation"  wouldn't be enough IMHO :-)
 

Offline Akiko

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 07:19:51 PM »
Isn't he the fella that wanted a fortune for the old Blizzard, SX-32 designs?
 

Offline delshay

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 10:22:24 PM »
it maybe possible but will love to try OS4.1 on my system. overclocked Blizzard PPC 321Mhz with 80.333Mhz bus which i do belive is a new record for classic amiga bus speed.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 10:32:17 PM by delshay »
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Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 10:51:36 PM »
Quote from: delshay;533329
it maybe possible but will love to try OS4.1 on my system. overclocked Blizzard PPC 321Mhz with 80.333Mhz bus which i do belive is a new record for classic amiga bus speed.


Wow...fast! What does SysSpeed report for PPC MIPS and MFLOPS? ;)
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline Jose

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2009, 01:32:53 AM »
Yeah, GRex support would make some harcore users very happy, they'd probably even pay for it ;)
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Offline delshay

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2009, 11:06:03 AM »
Quote from: HammerD;533331
Wow...fast! What does SysSpeed report for PPC MIPS and MFLOPS? ;)


iv posted the results on another amiga website,performance needs to improve so the card is being reviewed/modifyed again. results seem to show it faster than a Cyberstorm PPC.
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Offline pekdar

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2010, 07:58:28 PM »
Quote from: HammerD;533248
[...]

The real problem - on OS4.0 classic is the lack of ram.  Sure you can get by OK by limiting your open programs, but the 128MB limitation on the Cyberstorm PPC does tend to hurt after awhile.  Blizzard users are lucky and can live in the luxury of 256MB ram...not so for us CS PPC users :-)  But OS 4.0 is still fun to use, even in 128MB.  You can still browse the web, listen to internet radio, go on IRC, FTP, etc...

:)

I think You forget about FastLaneZ3 cards with RAM. I have FastLaneZ3 v2.4 card and I have extra 32MB 60ns more memory on OS3.9. 3 days ago I ordered more simms RAM  with 96MB. So in near future I'll have 128+128 = 256MB on My A4000D. I know that RAM on FastLaneZ3 card i slower from CSPPC memory but it is still much faster from swap file. If OS4 developers could add support for this card, They should do. I agree that Hyperion should add support for swap memory for Classic users especially.
 

Offline nikodr

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2010, 01:32:05 AM »
which brings me to the question:Is it possible to add support for more ram than 256mbytes?I suppose a 4000 could have more ram than that (not connected to the cyberstorm though)
 

Offline pekdar

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2010, 10:07:21 PM »
Quote from: nikodr;537983
which brings me to the question:Is it possible to add support for more ram than 256mbytes?I suppose a 4000 could have more ram than that (not connected to the cyberstorm though)

I'm positive it is. If everything will be fine when I add a new RAM to my FastLaneZ3, I have a plan to buy next 128MB SIMM RAM 60ns. Then I see what happen next.
In the doc. for FastLaneZ3 is written it can handle up to 256MB RAM. So if everything will be fine working on OS3.9 it also could on OS4 when someone will add support for this card. I could do beta tests if any OS4 developer will try to write support :)
 

Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2010, 07:26:08 AM »
Quote from: pekdar;537906
I think You forget about FastLaneZ3 cards with RAM. I have FastLaneZ3 v2.4 card and I have extra 32MB 60ns more memory on OS3.9. 3 days ago I ordered more simms RAM  with 96MB. So in near future I'll have 128+128 = 256MB on My A4000D. I know that RAM on FastLaneZ3 card i slower from CSPPC memory but it is still much faster from swap file. If OS4 developers could add support for this card, They should do. I agree that Hyperion should add support for swap memory for Classic users especially.

I was referring to OS4 which only supports the 128MB ram on the Cyberstorm PPC itself.  OS4 does not support any other RAM except the 2MB chip ram on the A4000 motherboard.  It even ignores any fast ram installed on the A4000 motherboard itself.

The argument against other ram solutions such as the Fastlane is that it would be too slow. (from the OS4 developers).
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Offline Crumb

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Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2010, 12:44:13 PM »
@HammerD

Ralph said Hyperion never asked him any doubt. Hyperion never reported Ralph any problem about his scsi drivers. They never asked him about documentation or help. BTW, I think no documentation would be required, perhaps simply asking him something like "we change these registers to that value like we did on some PCI cards but it doesn't work like it should, do you know if we have to modify any other register to init the scsi correctly?" may be enough.

BTW, they could also take a look at linux APUS, AFAIK BlizzardPPC SCSI works in latest Linux Apus versions.

I don't have to act as a "mediator" since I'm not selling OS4 and since they are the interested party in making OS4 succeed they should ask Ralph for help firstly. If they ever had received a "no" from Ralph I would act as a "mediator" and ask politely to Ralph, but since they don't seem to be interested in making their own OS successful and forgot about classic users I won't waste my time trying to get information about something that won't be released. I bought a copy despiting I had it for free due to betatesting though.

Some people in the dev team liked to claim OS3 scsi drivers were "broken" but they never informed about these "terrible" bugs so Ralph will hardly fix them if you never report them. I guess it's due to OS4 broken virtual memory system not being able to use proper amiga DMA (the same reason most zorro dma cards won't work...). IMHO when everything works and you release an incompatible system that breaks everything that worked without problems, claiming that all amiga dma drivers are broken is kinda funny.

@Radeon
they have the earlier prometheus drivers that should work with minor changes (it inited the rom without relying on emulators) but since there are just a few classic betatesters with decent equipment (most of them had blizzardppc with no scsi and sometimes they even lacked gfx card) I doubt they can even test it.


@Fastlane guys

won't happen. They will tell you that your fastlane is useless because using swap would be faster in theory (I haven't performed benchmarks but csppc scsi driver feels slower than MorphOS/OS3 one). But since os4 classic doesn't support swap yet we are stucked with what we have. You'll probably have noticed that the 16MB of your motherboard aren't used with OS4, right? BTW, scsi part of fastlane won't work since OS4 virtual memory breaks every amiga dma driver. The sad part is that this "OS4 virtual memory" idea is completely useless on OS4 classic: you lose compatibility with dma drivers and you don't have swap memory.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 12:52:56 PM by Crumb »
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Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2010, 03:52:38 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;538263
@HammerD

Ralph said Hyperion never asked him any doubt. Hyperion never reported Ralph any problem about his scsi drivers. They never asked him about documentation or help. BTW, I think no documentation would be required, perhaps simply asking him something like "we change these registers to that value like we did on some PCI cards but it doesn't work like it should, do you know if we have to modify any other register to init the scsi correctly?" may be enough.

BTW, they could also take a look at linux APUS, AFAIK BlizzardPPC SCSI works in latest Linux Apus versions.

I don't have to act as a "mediator" since I'm not selling OS4 and since they are the interested party in making OS4 succeed they should ask Ralph for help firstly. If they ever had received a "no" from Ralph I would act as a "mediator" and ask politely to Ralph, but since they don't seem to be interested in making their own OS successful and forgot about classic users I won't waste my time trying to get information about something that won't be released. I bought a copy despiting I had it for free due to betatesting though.

Some people in the dev team liked to claim OS3 scsi drivers were "broken" but they never informed about these "terrible" bugs so Ralph will hardly fix them if you never report them. I guess it's due to OS4 broken virtual memory system not being able to use proper amiga DMA (the same reason most zorro dma cards won't work...). IMHO when everything works and you release an incompatible system that breaks everything that worked without problems, claiming that all amiga dma drivers are broken is kinda funny.


I don't know the reasons why the cybppc.device was developed as it was for OS4.  I know it has to do some magic to get around the embedded cybppc.device in the cyberstorm flashrom so you get about 12-13MB/sec maximum out of it.   On the same machine with OS 3.9 I get about 18.5MB/sec (as a reference).  So the OS4 cybppc.device is a bit slower under OS4.

I wasn't involved at the time that it was being developed (for OS4).  And I don't know the history behind the bug reporting, nor of any discussions with (or without) Ralph Schmidt.  

I wouldn't say OS4's  virtual memory is "broken", just that for OS4 Classic paging is not (yet) supported and older drivers would obviously need to be updated.  Hyperion has not made any official statements on the future of OS4 Classic.  So I would say if you are interested in further updates to OS4 Classic then let your views be known by e-mailing Hyperion and/or Acube (which is the distributor).

Having said that, it's next to impossible to find developers willing to work on Classic still, especially hardware drivers.  Unless maybe if they were (well) paid and still had working Classic hardware (which is rare).  I personally don't have the money to pay them.

Most active developers have moved on to AmigaOne/Sam, or for the MorphOS team Pegasos 2/Mac Mini etc.   Most don't have Classic hardware anymore at all.
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!