New to Whdload what's The crack?

[nicholas]

I may change my software distribution paradigm; depends from the choices made at certain point in time....I participated in drivers for linux distributions too; and I never asked for a penny...I wrote utilities and never tried to make money on them, because it was quite dumb to me to ask for 1 buck for a utility used by sys admins for their operations.

If I write an application for Amiga, I would not sell it. Even less if it would need some other software for which I do not own rights to use, nor I was authorized to modify.

IF I can get the code of AF and WHDLoad, I may be able to tell how much effort goes in it, but without see the code; I can simply theorize and assume; which does nothing good in the end.

The effort was never under discussion btw

Really?

You wrote:

'WinUAE is a lot of work; if you ever wrote an application for windows Same goes for AF.

You think the crappy VB-esque front end they put together is even close to the work put into WinUAE which is free of charge and without which AF would have no product, yet you moan about WHDLoad not working without the games people have already paid for.

As I said, they are leeches that freeload on the work of others.

[nicholas]

Yes, GPL, which is different from a copyrighted game, which has to be disassembled, reverse engineered, to remove protections and make it work and install with WHDLoad. That's one of my problems in dealing with such software.

AF takes roms and AmigaOS 3.0, for which has paid licenses and rights to distribute them, to people that do not have an Amiga...by law you are required to either own the rom and the software, to use it on an emulator, or you need to buy a license, like the one that AF has. I fail to see the "leeching" here.

The front end takes time to be written; as easy as it could be, the fact that me or you would be able to make a similar frontend with the same features with visual studio, doesn't mean necessarily that is a small feature, don't you think?

I am not defending them, just pointing out that they did legally everything right, and even made the effort to make a frontend for Amiga enthusiasts. After all these people used to write software for Amiga, so they care about it, don't you think?

Now, since I have a real Amiga again, the point in using it is limited, but think about many people that wants to have LEGALLY a copy of the roms and AOS; they can actually do it thanks to AF.

Or is better to get all fro free on bit torrent? In which case I fail to see why then WHDLoad should be different.

Anyway; I simply opened up my inner thoughts here; I don't want to discourage anyone to buy WHDLoad, since it seems loved by so many people. I just want to be sure that I don't break the law in any way, or somehow break my ethical code.

WHDLoad authors have done everything "legally right" too, except they are only selling their own hard work not someone else's GPL licenced hard work.

[superfrog76]

Really?


You think the crappy VB-esque front end they put together is even close to the work put into WinUAE which is free of charge and without which AF would have no product, yet you moan about WHDLoad not working without the games people have already paid for.

As I said, they are leeches that freeload on the work of others.

Yes, why it is so strange? Do you deal with people that live only for money? Nobody does something for free or for passion? I pity them, they must have a really sad and miserable life. The fact that you have a gift or skills, does not mean necessarily that you must monetize it 24/7. I have a full time job that pay a lot and give me the chance to do what I love; so I am lucky probably.

I don't know if it is made in VB or not; the UI is exactly the same even if you use Visual C++. I agree that without UAE there would be no AF, but is the same for WHDLoad: without games there would be no WHDLoad. You can still use the AF frontend without launch the games thou, as database and catalog system thou.

I am simply comparing the legality and usefulness of the 2, since they both depend from something else. To me one's price is fine, while the other seems excessive, that's all.

SO WHDLoad is not freeloading on games? I see you having a strong opinion on AF, but I don't see you making a reasonable comment on WHDLoad thou, which makes me think that you take side, and not just analyzing the things like I am trying to do.

I don't want to change your ideas, I express my opinion, to see if someone has arguments that could make me change my mind about this product legality

[superfrog76]

WHDLoad authors have done everything "legally right" too, except they are only selling their own hard work not someone else's GPL licenced hard work.

So they contacted every single company for every single game, told them that they will reverse engineer the games to remove cracks (if any), protections, change its mount point in the os, so it can be read from the hd, pack all in a file and distribute it for money?

Even if they don't touch the compiled application, to use something written by others, you need authorization, the usual EULA terms do not allow to make derived works out of an application; I don't have handy any EULA now to copy exactly what it says, but in software development, there are standards that a re the bare minimum.

Since you work in the field, as you mentioned earlier, you know this very well.

If they did all of this, and there are proof that they contacted whoever retains the rights and copyright for each game, I will be more than happy to consider the registration fee.

[AmigaBruno]

I'm very sorry to have to say that I haven't been able to work out how to install WHDload and now I'm not sure I even remember how I was trying to do it. I bought a blank CF card and an IDE adaptor. I watched tutorial videos by the YouTube user retrosofer, then I inserted the CF card into a CF card to USB adaptor and tried to install the files from my laptop onto the card under Linux and/or Windows. I put the files in the root directory of my Windows partition and just couldn't manage to install them. I remember that the WHDload files had to be in the C: root directory under Windows. I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong.

Since then, I've only installed a few games and the BetterWB pack, which were all in .ADF format, onto my CF card hard drive. I've only worked out how to copy and install software which is on floppy disk, usually created with a .ADF transfer program. If only WHDload was available as a set of .ADF files then I could install it.

Can anyone explain to me simply and clearly how to install WHDload onto my CF card, or even onto a new blank CF card?

Alternatively, can anyone point out where I can still get a pre prepared CF card which already has WHDload, as well as lots of games and demos already installed onto it?

[nicholas]

Yes, why it is so strange? Do you deal with people that live only for money? Nobody does something for free or for passion? I pity them, they must have a really sad and miserable life.

You mean like giving up a career with a huge salary to look after disabled people 24/7 for no monetary gain whatsoever?

The fact that you have a gift or skills, does not mean necessarily that you must monetize it 24/7.

What has that got to do with Cloanto MAKING MONEY by selling other people's hard work compared to WHDLoad authors selling their own work?

I have a full time job that pay a lot and give me the chance to do what I love; so I am lucky probably.

So you keep saying.

I don't know if it is made in VB or not; the UI is exactly the same even if you use Visual C++. I agree that without UAE there would be no AF, but is the same for WHDLoad: without games there would be no WHDLoad. You can still use the AF frontend without launch the games thou, as database and catalog system thou.

I am simply comparing the legality and usefulness of the 2, since they both depend from something else. To me one's price is fine, while the other seems excessive, that's all.

So selling someone elses work with a crappy frontend is "fine" but selling your own hard work is "not fine"?

SO WHDLoad is not freeloading on games? I see you having a strong opinion on AF, but I don't see you making a reasonable comment on WHDLoad thou, which makes me think that you take side, and not just analyzing the things like I am trying to do.

I am stating nothing but facts, WHDLoad is the sole work of it's authors and they are free to sell it for whatever price they want.

Your "analysis" is not based in logic at all.

I don't want to change your ideas, I express my opinion, to see if someone has arguments that could make me change my mind about this product legality

How about the law?  That enough of a reason for you?

[nicholas]

So they contacted every single company for every single game, told them that they will reverse engineer the games to remove cracks (if any), protections, change its mount point in the os, so it can be read from the hd, pack all in a file and distribute it for money?

They don't need to, in civilised countries the law quite clearly states they are allowed to provide such a service.

Even if they don't touch the compiled application, to use something written by others, you need authorization, the usual EULA terms do not allow to make derived works out of an application; I don't have handy any EULA now to copy exactly what it says, but in software development, there are standards that a re the bare minimum.

They don't create nor distribute "derived works out of an application".

Since you work in the field, as you mentioned earlier, you know this very well.

I know what the law states in civilised countries, you seemingly don't.

If they did all of this, and there are proof that they contacted whoever retains the rights and copyright for each game, I will be more than happy to consider the registration fee.

See above.

[nicholas]

I'm very sorry to have to say that I haven't been able to work out how to install WHDload and now I'm not sure I even remember how I was trying to do it. I bought a blank CF card and an IDE adaptor. I watched tutorial videos by the YouTube user retrosofer, then I inserted the CF card into a CF card to USB adaptor and tried to install the files from my laptop onto the card under Linux and/or Windows. I put the files in the root directory of my Windows partition and just couldn't manage to install them. I remember that the WHDload files had to be in the C: root directory under Windows. I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong.

Since then, I've only installed a few games and the BetterWB pack, which were all in .ADF format, onto my CF card hard drive. I've only worked out how to copy and install software which is on floppy disk, usually created with a .ADF transfer program. If only WHDload was available as a set of .ADF files then I could install it.

Can anyone explain to me simply and clearly how to install WHDload onto my CF card, or even onto a new blank CF card?

Alternatively, can anyone point out where I can still get a pre prepared CF card which already has WHDload, as well as lots of games and demos already installed onto it?

ebay, but that would be illegal in most western countries.

[AmigaBruno]

ebay, but that would be illegal in most western countries.

Unfortunately, it's not clear from the eBay listings nowadays which of these cards have any games or demos installed.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Unfortunately, it's not clear from the eBay listings nowadays which of these cards have any games or demos installed.

At first I would be tempted to say "that's because of all the people crying about 'piracy' they changed their descriptions", then I went to ebay and typed in "amiga cf" and found 14 listings right off the bat for CF cards loaded with WHDLoad games.  Search harder.

WHDLoad is a godsend, I can't imagine how or why people would want to use things like floppy disks or HxC readers/.adf files, when you can have a nice directory full of games that load easily just by clicking on their icon, and have a clean exit key to put you right back to Workbench when you're finished playing.  As much as I loved the '80s I don't have time to wait around for games to load anymore, too old for that, LOL.  

[AmigaBruno]

At first I would be tempted to say "that's because of all the people crying about 'piracy' they changed their descriptions", then I went to ebay and typed in "amiga cf" and found 14 listings right off the bat for CF cards loaded with WHDLoad games.  Search harder.

WHDLoad is a godsend, I can't imagine how or why people would want to use things like floppy disks or HxC readers/.adf files, when you can have a nice directory full of games that load easily just by clicking on their icon, and have a clean exit key to put you right back to Workbench when you're finished playing.  As much as I loved the '80s I don't have time to wait around for games to load anymore, too old for that, LOL.  

Various sellers say that the cards have WHDload, but don't say whether or not they have any games or demos pre installed. Of course, I've totally failed to install WHDload, so I could probably install the games and demos onto the CF card if WHDload was already installed, but it would take several hours or even a few days to install all the games and demos one of these cards may contain.

[superfrog76]

You mean like giving up a career with a huge salary to look after disabled people 24/7 for no monetary gain whatsoever?

When I retire, maybe; for now I can do both things. I pay taxes, I volunteer, I do work for free for various associations....yes Nicholas; the world out there is made of people that actually help, or simply stay quiet if they don't have anything to give, other than paid content

What has that got to do with Cloanto MAKING MONEY by selling other people's hard work compared to WHDLoad authors selling their own work?

Cloanto is a company, WHDLoad is a simple group of people, from what I can tell; no brand registration or such. In the same way Cloanto makes AF with their hard work, WHDLoad has their hard work doing their installer.

Again, either you have no idea, code wise, of what both team do and love to boast what WHDLoad do (for some unknown reasons, honestly), or you know exactly what they do, and feel offended that I compare AF "basic" frontend, with a bunch of lines of assembly, made by WHDLoad...

Since you don't expand your thoughts at all, continuing to state things without any extra info; I am not sure that I can understand what kind of point are you making.

So you keep saying.

I do, since I don't live in a basement with my parents, hating on something...it is to make the point that I am not a starving little boy, that wants so bad to play to a bunch of cracked games from a 30 years old system; that loves to play and boast who knows what kind of knowledge

I have to make it clear, and I am glad that it came trough. On internet is hard to understand when are you talking with a total doofus that loves to talk, and when you are talking with someone that actually is trying to say something true.

So selling someone elses work with a crappy frontend is "fine" but selling your own hard work is "not fine"?

No, you misunderstood. Value wise, roms+wb+frontend coming form AF, is priced decently; while WHDLoad offer of installers and game fixes, seems overpriced to me.

If a person takes 3 months to write an application, while another takes 2 days, means that the first person wasted 3 months, I would not call it hard work. Not talking specifically of WHDLoad, just pointing out that the hard work is there, either if you are slow and take time to do something simple, or if you are quick and do it fast. Criticize something just because looks simple to you, is probably the wrong approach when analyzing software.

I am stating nothing but facts, WHDLoad is the sole work of it's authors and they are free to sell it for whatever price they want.

You are totally right; the author is the only one that made the installers, he can sell it at whatever price he wants; and consumers can decide if they want to pay that price or not. So far freedom rights are safe!

Your "analysis" is not based in logic at all.

Really? Either you don't understand what I am saying, or I am not good at writing in proper English (I would go for the second, since it is not my primary language). I simply see the same answers from you.

Did I touch a hot spot by any chance? Am I interdicted from naming or saying anything about WHDLoad, without getting on a black list and receive the donkey hat? All that I see here is "it is hard work, they didn't do anything wrong...ho DARE you even touch my beloved application?".

Am I wrong?

How about the law?  That enough of a reason for you?

Of which law are you talking about? You are aware that laws are different in each country, and that there is an international set of laws that covers the basics? I can stop by at my legal office later and ask them to give me pointers about international laws about software...that's what they do 24/7   Altho I doubt that they would waste time with me, having more important things to do probably (that's why they are paid 5 times more than me )

[superfrog76]

They don't need to, in civilised countries the law quite clearly states they are allowed to provide such a service.



They don't create nor distribute "derived works out of an application".



I know what the law states in civilised countries, you seemingly don't.



See above.

On the contrary....legally aware country (USA, just to mention the biggest), have very specific laws about software distribution, then each application needs to have an End User License Agreement; which is the binding contract between the user and the software .

When you open a box containing software, or click "I agree" when you install it, you are accepting the EULA and all the related conditions. There are no more contracts to sign, like in the stone age.

The fact that laws are not mentioned, does not mean that someone can ignore them

If anyone reverse engineer anything, to make a piece of software, it is legally considered derived work. Not sure where do you get your info; later on I will post some legal links.

Feel free to do the same; I see you posting always the contrary of what I say, but I don't see any mention of the source. I believe you, because I have no reason to believe that you don't say the truth, but if I read something that say the opposite of what you say, I would love to document myself and find out which source is incorrect.

[superfrog76]

Can anyone explain to me simply and clearly how to install WHDload onto my CF card, or even onto a new blank CF card?

Alternatively, can anyone point out where I can still get a pre prepared CF card which already has WHDload, as well as lots of games and demos already installed onto it?

On the install part, there is a wonderful video made by Mike, which teach you how to install the OS on a CFCard, and has also the instructions to install WHDLoad; it is on youtube (but there are plenty).

Once you have the installer, you simply execute it and it does all the work; to install each game, you need to follow the instructions from each installer. Go to their site, download the installer that you need and go from there.

On the sal of cards with games; they usually sell CF cards with games and WHDLoad installed on Ebay, which are legit; but more and more non legit cards are appearing. You can ask the seller which games are included (some are publicly available now, like the ones from factor5), and check if he has anything that is still protected by copyright.
Also they sell it usually with the license from a guy that shared without realizing, his key; so if you see a key file on the card; simply delete it and buy a proper license for WHDLoad.

[superfrog76]

WHDLoad is a godsend, I can't imagine how or why people would want to use things like floppy disks or HxC readers/.adf files, when you can have a nice directory full of games that load easily just by clicking on their icon, and have a clean exit key to put you right back to Workbench when you're finished playing.  As much as I loved the '80s I don't have time to wait around for games to load anymore, too old for that, LOL.  

We can safely assume that nobody ever questioned the utility in having such program

A phone is useful, can't see why people would not use it...and some people don't use the phone I don't argue with the intrinsic value of having a phone; I just don't use it enough to make it worth the 40 dollars a month for the bill.

The world is great because has many shades and differences

Cmon...don't you love the grinding sound of the floppy drive? Like the sounds made by the old modem?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I don't argue with the intrinsic value of having a phone; I just don't use it enough to make it worth the 40 dollars a month for the bill.

WHDLoad is a one-time purchase of approx. $30.00 USD (which includes free lifetime updates, AFAIK), not a monthly subscription.