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Author Topic: Apple News: They made $4bn profit  (Read 5327 times)

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Offline kickstart

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2010, 02:30:25 AM »
4 millions purchased with overpriced hardware, phones without coverture, ipods (with their itunes dictadure) ipads (whats this?) and some more stupid accesories for ipods, iphones, i...

World becomes crazy.
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Offline KThunder

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2010, 03:18:10 AM »
Quote from: orb85750;585776
Oh my, you had better watch what you say on this board, in front of the fanatical Amiga armada -- OK, not quite an armada. :-)


Actually since xp came out and now with 7 MS has a very decent os. MS slaggers are becoming more of a joke now. Especially ones that mispell MS like M$ or winblows or any of that childishness.

the "armada" is growing up and coming to terms with reality.
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Offline Tripitaka

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2010, 05:07:34 AM »
I disagree, Windows 7 needs a gig of Ram, a GHz of processor, 16 gig of HD space and at least a DX9 GFX card.  What do I get in return for this over a 32Meg 486? Not enough IMHO. I now run a machine that's over 100 times faster than my old blue lightning but it's far from 100 times quicker in practice, so much power is eaten up by the OS. Even mundane background programs like the BBC iPlayers updater use over 30Mb of RAM and as for the file structure, who knows what half of those .dll files do, why many of them are repeated over your hard disk or if they are even necessary. Even MS themselves have admitted that they have lost track of the file interdepedencies in Windows. The only reality is that MS has a monopoly that can't be broken. I use Windows because I have to (my university software requires it), not because I like it. Windows needs trimming down, I don't need half of the extra nanny managers nor do I need a stack of built in drivers for hardware I don't have and when I uninstall a piece of hardware and reboot I certainly don't need Windows installing it's own drivers when I boot up again without bloody well asking me or deciding to reboot because it's updated myself and I loose the last half hour of my Galactic Civ II game. I know, I know, I can change the update options.....and then it nags me to change them back to what MS thinks is best for me. Grrr...decent OS? your joking surely.
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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2010, 06:26:23 AM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;585808
I disagree, Windows 7 needs a gig of Ram, a GHz of processor, 16 gig of HD space and at least a DX9 GFX card.  What do I get in return for this over a 32Meg 486? Not enough IMHO. I now run a machine that's over 100 times faster than my old blue lightning but it's far from 100 times quicker in practice, so much power is eaten up by the OS. Even mundane background programs like the BBC iPlayers updater use over 30Mb of RAM and as for the file structure, who knows what half of those .dll files do, why many of them are repeated over your hard disk or if they are even necessary. Even MS themselves have admitted that they have lost track of the file interdepedencies in Windows. The only reality is that MS has a monopoly that can't be broken. I use Windows because I have to (my university software requires it), not because I like it. Windows needs trimming down, I don't need half of the extra nanny managers nor do I need a stack of built in drivers for hardware I don't have and when I uninstall a piece of hardware and reboot I certainly don't need Windows installing it's own drivers when I boot up again without bloody well asking me or deciding to reboot because it's updated myself and I loose the last half hour of my Galactic Civ II game. I know, I know, I can change the update options.....and then it nags me to change them back to what MS thinks is best for me. Grrr...decent OS? your joking surely.


It just shows you that Microsoft aren't talented just lucky. Except for maybe Windows 95 (imho) nothing they have done has been particularly imaginative or user-friendly. And of course Office 97-2003 seems to cross all the t's, dot all the i's.

Is it true they got outside developers to do Windows XP?

Compared to MacOS 68k/PPC it's a finely crafted user interface with easy to understand preferences etc.

AmigaOS, I wouldn't say out of the box user-friendly, but you can learn how do everything in a hour (and not forget it because it's intuitive).
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Offline runequester

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2010, 07:02:45 AM »
Quote from: KThunder;585795
Actually since xp came out and now with 7 MS has a very decent os. MS slaggers are becoming more of a joke now. Especially ones that mispell MS like M$ or winblows or any of that childishness.

the "armada" is growing up and coming to terms with reality.

http://www.securecomputing.net.au/News/157767,nsw-police-dont-use-windows-for-internet-banking.aspx

http://www.esecurityplanet.com/views/article.php/3844311/Windows-and-Online-Banking-A-Dangerous-Mix.htm

Of course, Google jumped ship half a year ago
http://mashable.com/2010/05/31/google-windows/
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 07:24:46 AM by runequester »
 

Offline coldfish

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2010, 08:35:38 AM »
Ive used OSX on and off for years, just started using my macmini again and I have to say while its not perfect, OSX feels like it had a lot more polish and playtesting than Win7.  I'm a bit sick of Win7  bombarding me with updates every time it starts, how many problems are there with the code that it need 20+ updated per week?
 

Offline rebraist

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2010, 11:56:38 AM »
Here in italy some days ago, a news said: two apple italy employees fired because "their thoughts were not compatible with apple thought". If this weren't enough their chief asked them to go out by "the back door".
...
4 billions made with stalinist methods is horror to me.
- their thoughts were compatible with those of their company... anyone has ever heard of 1984? george orwell?
- exit by the back door. this is terrific. even in china workers are not so humiliated.
 
edit: and most terrific the two workers were, and today still are, two fanboys.
some time ago a book was published by penguin: "in the mind of steve jobs. people doesn't know what they want. sj knows what people wants."
even more terrific to me.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 11:58:58 AM by rebraist »
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edit:...i\'m now an heretic perverted... i\'m a morpharosian...
Evil has no limits... I\'ve even os4.1 too...
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Offline WolfToTheMoon

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2010, 12:16:47 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;585808
I disagree, Windows 7 needs a gig of Ram, a GHz of processor, 16 gig of HD space and at least a DX9 GFX card

so? You can have all of that for such a small amount of money today it is really not an issue at all. Remember that Win7 has to be able to boot on all kind of x86 hardware which is numerous and some of it even unsupported(not tested that is) before you complain about the drivers.


Sure, there are nice alternatives today, but truth be told, none of them are anywhere near as good as windows.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2010, 02:16:14 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;585808
I disagree, Windows 7 needs a gig of Ram, a GHz of processor, 16 gig of HD space and at least a DX9 GFX card.


So basically youre saying you need a computer made in the last 5 or so years to use the latest Windows OS?  I hardly see that as a reason to cry outrage. Sure there's extra unneccesary stuff, but dont like it, just remove it, it's not rocket science. Personally Im over the whole bashing Windows thing. Theyve made a pretty decent OS by now, considering its audience (ie. needs to be well and truly idiot proof). Im not a Windows fan as such, but neither do I dislike it. It drives some very nice software that I enjoy, but that's as far as my "relationship" with it goes. As for Apple, well I must admit theyve driven the wave of electronic consumerism better than probably anyone else. I guess they were a big part of creating the market so they'd want to. Im a bit disappointed that they do so well on such average products, but thier marketting tells people Apple products are good, and for the most part people believe them. Personally Ive yet to see an Apple product that has impressed me, although to be fair theyve not made any products I thought were terrible either. Just normal, albiet reasonably presented stuff. My quirk with them though is theyve somehow managed to convince people that this stuff is good. Im more of a person who likes to see things do well on the back of the quality, not the marketting. ("music" drives me nuts these days due to this, its 95% marketting, 5% product, although thankfully there's still good stuff if you look outside the box (which ironically is true of computers too))
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline persia

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2010, 02:28:30 PM »
@rebraist

So you judge an entire company by a memory of something you saw or read or think you saw or read about what two ex-Apple employees said in a vague sort of way?  Both Apple and Microsoft have wonderful reputations as employers.  I know people that have been working for Microsoft or Apple for twenty years and they can't imagine leaving, they love their jobs.

Yes, Steve Jobs has a vision but he turned a company that had to borrow 150 million dollars from Microsoft to survive into a company that now has a market cap of more than Microsoft.  It's having a vision that makes Apple different.

Steve Jobs understands that the average user doesn't want or need complexity.  iOS devices are, on the surface, simple.  There may be an entire OS X style OS in your iPhone/iPod/iPad, but you don't need to know about it.  It's user friendliness, where Amiga began all those years ago when it was the most user friendly system.  Had the original Amiga vision stood you would have had AmiPods, AmiPads and AmiPhones that wouldn't be very different from iPods, iPads and iPhones.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 02:42:26 PM by persia »
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Offline nOw2

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2010, 03:16:28 PM »
Quote from: rebraist;585840
4 billions made with stalinist methods is horror to me.
- their thoughts were compatible with those of their company... anyone has ever heard of 1984? george orwell?
- exit by the back door. this is terrific. even in china workers are not so humiliated.
Is this sarcasm or are your views of private enterprise really so wrong?
 

Offline mikeymike

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2010, 03:26:02 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;585808
I disagree, Windows 7 needs a gig of Ram, a GHz of processor, 16 gig of HD space and at least a DX9 GFX card.  What do I get in return for this over a 32Meg 486? Not enough IMHO.

Ok, let me see...

A 32MB 486 would absolutely CRAWL when browsing most modern websites.
I find it unlikely that you could find a workable 486 configuration that could play simultaneous audio streams.  It would probably be a bit of a stretch playing an mp3 and continuing to multitask.
I bet most modern graphical web browsers would take an age to load on it.

What operating systems would work well for a user on such hardware?  Perhaps a granny with Win311 and Office 4.3 would be happy typing her letters and printing them, but I can't imagine many more would be.

Skype + mic or even including a webcam (including hypothetical USB ports)?  Good luck.

Downloading images from a digital camera and doing minor editing work like rotation?  In those days, today's typical camera resolutions would have been classed as impossibly high-res, to rotate one image would probably take about 10 minutes.

Synchronising an mp3 collection with an mp3 player?  Good luck.

Computer games?  Ok, UFO: Enemy Unknown absolutely rocked.  So do a few other games possibly of a similar age, but any Flash game for example?

I imagine a 486 would be fairly taxed with a NIC pushed to say 10Mbit/sec, so downloading a file off the Internet at high speed would very likely be a single-tasking experience, practically speaking.

Automatic updating of the operating system would also be fairly taxing.

Quote
I now run a machine that's over 100 times faster than my old blue lightning but it's far from 100 times quicker in practice, so much power is eaten up by the OS. Even mundane background programs like the BBC iPlayers updater use over 30Mb of RAM and as for the file structure, who knows what half of those .dll files do, why many of them are repeated over your hard disk or if they are even necessary.

Oh, thanks for pointing one out.  BBC iPlayer.  On a 486?  Even with say 1GB RAM and a hypothetical DX10 graphics card with video decoding acceleration capabilities?

The rules of the game have changed with regard to designing apps for modern computers.  RAM back then was expensive.  Now it is dirt cheap, as is storage space.  Having 4GB RAM and 99% unused as opposed to using say 25% of it and having everything run faster should be a no-brainer for most people to work out, it's just a case of good memory management if case a user wished to use 80% for a particular set of tasks.  You're complaining about the BBC iPlayer using 30MB RAM.  Just think about what you're saying!  The BBC iPlayer application in the days of the 486 would have been considered the realm of supercomputing, the resolutions involved are enormous.  The 486 handling the rendering could probably do a frame every minute if you're lucky.  More reasonably, a frame every ten minutes.

To make the example fairer, taking a video format and a player specially compiled for the 486 platform, it would still be unwatchable by most peoples' standards.

The expectations for computers have also changed drastically.

Quote
Even MS themselves have admitted that they have lost track of the file interdepedencies in Windows. The only reality is that MS has a monopoly that can't be broken. I use Windows because I have to (my university software requires it)

Blah, blah, blah.  Insert any modern OS into the examples I gave for a 486 to run and it would crawl, and please note that I picked tasks that the average user would currently expect their computer to perform to their satisfaction.

Yes, Windows is broken in quite a few ways, but your argument has so many holes in that I'm surprised you even managed to get to the end of your post without rethinking it.

Computers have grown, Windows has grown larger still, but I would say that's largely because Microsoft is going too far in terms of backwards compatibility (and that a pruning job is needed), but I think if you gave a teenager a 486 PC with the most ideal user-orientated software platform and optimised as much as possible for the hardware, even if you added a gig of RAM and today's performance in hard disk speeds, the teenager would feel that you had just put MS-DOS 6.22 in front of them and said "enjoy", purely because of the amount of extras that come with most modern operating systems these days.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 03:35:12 PM by mikeymike »
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2010, 12:15:32 AM »
Talk about missing my point completely!!

I'm not saying a 486 could do the things a modern PC can do, If it could I wouldn't have paid out for a modern PC, I'de still be running my old 486. What I am saying is that the relative power is wasted, you can quote all the "but it costs less now" arguments you like, I don't care! It doesn't change the fact does it. The BBC iPlayer app was a great case to point and you didn't even read what I said did you. No, read it again man, this time pay attention. I said that the UPDATER used over 30Mb of RAM, not the app, it's not processing any video or doing anything clever, it's just checking every 5 minutes or so to see if an update is present. Tell me a 486 couldn't do that and I'll laugh at you. Next time you comment on my post, do me favour and read it first.
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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2010, 12:33:17 AM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;585962
Talk about missing my point completely!!

I'm not saying a 486 could do the things a modern PC can do, If it could I wouldn't have paid out for a modern PC, I'de still be running my old 486. What I am saying is that the relative power is wasted, you can quote all the "but it costs less now" arguments you like, I don't care! It doesn't change the fact does it. The BBC iPlayer app was a great case to point and you didn't even read what I said did you. No, read it again man, this time pay attention. I said that the UPDATER used over 30Mb of RAM, not the app, it's not processing any video or doing anything clever, it's just checking every 5 minutes or so to see if an update is present. Tell me a 486 couldn't do that and I'll laugh at you. Next time you comment on my post, do me favour and read it first.

I second that.
You buy a simple puzzler game online and most of it is bloatware. First you download a small exe file. You run that and it downloads a downloader. The downloader downloads a shell for running games. Then finally you can download the game and run it via the shell.
Except for flash which I've seen use up to 80% CPU time you could easily view anything on the net with 16MB-32MB.
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Offline KThunder

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2010, 05:43:14 PM »
I think it is funny when people talk about bloatware, and how programs are so much larger now.

Do you really think programs are actually that much larger? They really arent. I'll give you an example. Say you take a puzzle game from 1990 that takes say a meg of ram for the code and associated data and another meg with the graphics and sound. compressed that would fit on a 1.44 meg floppy right.

That is probably using vga 256 color 320x200 graphics and 22khz stereo audio loops. games on the BBS networks at the time were smaller and even more simple.

Nowadays practically identical game programming can use a gig or more of graphics data and hundreds of megs of mp3's.

And the horsepower and storage to do all that is out there and is very cheap.

programs today and 20 years ago are very similar but they are working with staggeringly different amounts of data in completely different environments. Our demands on the hardware has matched the increase in capabilities, so no it doesnt feel 100 times faster unless you are useing the same programs and data.
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Offline kedawa

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Re: Apple News: They made $4bn profit
« Reply #29 from previous page: October 22, 2010, 07:46:51 AM »
Nonsense.  Software today is bloated as hell because making efficient use of space is no longer a priority, but bundling crapware is.  There are plenty of non-bloated programs out there for comparison, but most commercial software is full of unnecessary and unwanted data.