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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: on June 11, 2003, 11:23:05 AM

Title: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: on June 11, 2003, 11:23:05 AM
http://forums.atari.org/read.php3?num=3&id=11947&thread=11942 (http://forums.atari.org/read.php3?num=3&id=11947&thread=11942)

A1 = Dead newborn baby? :lol:
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: mikeymike on June 11, 2003, 12:39:32 PM
The domain name and the subject line are conflicting somewhat.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 11, 2003, 12:46:44 PM
Yeah ha ha ha, lets find a forum post where someone slags of the A1 and post it as a forum topic ha ha ha ha. Its only a shame we couldn't post it as news ha ha ha.

Sure we KNOW the A1 is "expensive" but the as of the moment vapourware PegasosII ain't been released yet.

Given they are considering a similar idea as to what has happened with Amiga ( bringing something off the shelf out and making it look and feel Atari ) I think its more of an endorsement.

Frankly I don't think it really matters what an atari fan site thinks of the new AmigaONEs at the moment. What matters is getting AOS4 out on A1 and seeing what happens next.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Warface on June 11, 2003, 12:49:36 PM
Quote
and seeing what happens next.


Am I the only one thinking that it resembles to Dr. Sid from Final Fantasy? :-)
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: meerschaum on June 11, 2003, 12:51:03 PM
WaffleOne isnt vapor?... mwhahahahaaha... when it gets WaffleOS4 on it I'll believe it...
Genesi so far has been able to deliver T-Shirts, a Board, an OS and of course there hasnt been any question of who's in charge at Genesi...
on the other hand? Amiga.inc ?... gimme a freakin break... calling Peg2 vapor and trying to defend an Amiga.inc camp innovation? hahahahahaah

as always... 100% opinon
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 11, 2003, 12:57:29 PM
I think you need to go look up what vapourware means.

"vapor and trying to defend an Amiga.inc camp innovation"

Oh terrible me for not having the same opinion as mips proc! Slap me right now!

Genesi has so far been able to deliver T-shirts, a buggy board that hasn't made it out of beta, a buggy OS that hasn't made it out of beta.

But this being a mips_proc thread, lets bring Amiga Inc right into this, it will give you something juicy to slag off.

Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: gary_c on June 11, 2003, 01:10:30 PM
Quote
Genesi has so far been able to deliver T-shirts, a buggy board that hasn't made it out of beta, a buggy OS that hasn't made it out of beta.

Why the animosity, DaveP? It's odd how your position keeps jumping around depending on the thread or forum. A buggy board? You're kidding, right? The Pegasos is perfectly useable; it's fixed. Remember that whole, expensive replacement campaign for the (actual) beta boards. The boards with the April fix are fine, really. But it's true that the new boards are upgraded. Your characterization is way off base, and I assume you know that already and are just playing games here.

A buggy OS? OK, it's an early release and there's missing functionality, etc., but buggy? Again, you're playing some kind of goofy provocation game here.

There are enough guys slagging off on one side or the other without you jumping in with these little mindgames.

-- gary_c
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 11, 2003, 01:17:18 PM
Gary

Its a retaliation game, yes. Abso-bloody-lutely. I am hoping that if I reply in a similar vein to Mips he might get the point and quit with it right here and now. However given you only got half the point so far I hold out no hope for mips.

However Id like you to explain your second sentence with references please. My position does not change on this lot at all.

However there is some factual accuracy:

1. Bill Buck claimed that the April 1 fix did not fix everything and nor did April 2, thats in the FAQ. He also claimed that G4 wouldn't work with the Articia S even with the April fixes. It is by their own acknowledgement a BETATESTER. So that much is true. But then the A1XEs that people have are fine, really. Get the point yet?

2. MOS you agree with and its BETA. So that much is true. Are you saying there are no bugs in 1.4? Or are all bugs "missing features"?

So, no bad characterisation so far.. ..maybe I just said something you didn't like hmmm?

(edit)Oh and the animousity is towards this tendancy of finding some reason to start a "lets slag off the A1" thread and of course to mips for whom I have no respect whatsoever.

Regards

Dave.

Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Warface on June 11, 2003, 01:37:29 PM
Fair nuff.

Quote
I am hoping that if I reply in a similar vein to Mips he might get the point and quit with it right here and now.


It's pretty improbable. Answers like that to flamebaits are  just more fuel to the flame.

In theory...

Will AmigaONE be less fawlty if Pegasos is fawlty too? Will AmigaOS4 arrive sooner if MOS 1.4 has bugs?

I pretty much doubt that. P-O-I-N-T-L-E-S-S bickering.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Warface on June 11, 2003, 01:39:00 PM
Not to mention this time you went OFF TOPIC. Now we are in orbit, how cool... :-)
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 11, 2003, 01:40:23 PM
Quote


Will AmigaONE be less fawlty if Pegasos is fawlty too? Will AmigaOS4 arrive sooner if MOS 1.4 has bugs?

I pretty much doubt that. P-O-I-N-T-L-E-S-S bickering.


Absolutely.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Lando on June 11, 2003, 01:42:37 PM
@DaveP

You think you could at least make an attempt to lay off the flames, trolling and personal insults for just one thread?

I know it's hard to change the habits of a lifetime but you never know, people may have a little more respect for your opinions (and that's all they are) if you phrase them in a more respectable manner.

In short, grow up.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Warface on June 11, 2003, 01:43:38 PM
I should have added but will do now: this applies for the Pegasos->AmigaONE, MOS->OS4 directions too. :-)
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 11, 2003, 01:46:56 PM
@Lando

Reread please. Then apologise.



Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Cyberus on June 11, 2003, 01:57:22 PM
Quote
Genesi so far has been able to deliver T-Shirts


Too right, provided they can produce T-shirts, who cares if the hardware's any good....
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: on June 11, 2003, 02:09:20 PM
Quote
Oh and the animousity is towards this tendancy of finding some reason to start a "lets slag off the A1" thread


That wasn't the reason I posted it at all.

I posted it as it's the first time I have seen ANY reference to the A1 outside of this community.  I'd have posted it if it was a good reference too.  Or if it was a bad reference to the Pegasos for that matter.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: jeffimix on June 11, 2003, 02:27:36 PM
lol, i wouldn't pay attention to an outsider who lives in That kind of fairy land (after reading that post)
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: amigamad on June 11, 2003, 02:47:45 PM
Amiga and atari users always did argue over who had the best machines but one thing they dont have is a new machines so we cant be that bad. :-)
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: mikeymike on June 11, 2003, 03:25:29 PM
Guys, lay off the trolling, for gawd's sake.  Personally I couldn't care less if you were saying "MorphOS sucks" or "AmigaOS sucks", they're both just as much trolling comments.

It's not interesting to read those comments, and it can't be that interesting to think them up.

I'd hate to think some peoples' primary motivations were to offend other people.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: mikeymike on June 11, 2003, 03:29:57 PM
@ mdma

If that was your intention, then surely a more impartial source, as well as not a forum post, would have been more interesting?  Say for example an independent hardware reviewing site*.

As soon as I saw the words 'forum' and 'atari' I didn't bother to read the article.  I'm sure that applies for quite a few other people as well.

* - admittedly they're tough to find, some of the popular ones have their allegiances too :-)
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Cyberus on June 11, 2003, 04:00:49 PM
 
Quote
As soon as I saw the words 'forum' and 'atari' I didn't bother to read the article


Funny you should say that.... :-D
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: on June 11, 2003, 04:21:54 PM
Quote

mikeymike wrote:
@ mdma

If that was your intention, then surely a more impartial source, as well as not a forum post, would have been more interesting?  Say for example an independent hardware reviewing site*.


As I said before, it's the ONLY reference to A1 I have ever seen other than on osnews/slashdot outside of our community.

Why would I go to the bother of trying to organize openamiga.tk if I was anti-amiga?!?!?!??!
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: mikeymike on June 11, 2003, 04:54:46 PM
I wasn't suggesting you were deliberately trying to be misleading or biased.  I was merely suggesting a better potential source of information in terms of reputability.  Yes, there has been very little on the AmigaOne hardware or OS4 from independent sources.  Maybe something that will change when OS4 is released.

It would make a significant difference if AI decided to send samples of A1/OS4 machines out to the big name reviewing sites.

Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: meerschaum on June 11, 2003, 05:03:17 PM
Quote
Too right, provided they can produce T-shirts, who cares if the hardware's any good....


yeah lets see what the amiga.inc and friends produced so far... the AmigaOne useing the same chipset sans the hardware fix... (claim its not a problem) ... they call it an AmigaOne even though so far it hasnt run AmigaOS at all... their produceing OS4... and how long ago did the "professed" ceo of Amiga.inc say it was to be released? ... ohh yeah we're not supposed to believe everything we hear from amiga.inc yet we're supposed to be zealous for them on the other hand... then we come to the CEO debacle... who is their CEO? who knows... the situation with Mr Peck? what happend to him?... FUD I supose? who is Garry Hare? more FUD.. the trademark bieng abandoned? more FUD from the government this time (blame Bush for it as always right)... now lets go back to their offices... their empty? an auction? couldnt be!!!... must be more FUD!!....and then you have then you have the promises of OS5 12 months after OS4... again 'dont believe them, just be zealous for them' ... that kinda mentality cracks me up...and of course the iceing on the cake is the t-shirts

and yet this thread...right off the bat jump on Genesi and call their product announcement  'vapour' ... ... product announcements are called vapour  now.... because some atari guy dosent like the amigaone... it had no bearing on Genesi/pegasos whatsoever... but a zealot chose to use it to vent antisentiment...
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 11, 2003, 06:21:48 PM
@mdma

Then I owe you an apology, but how do you square your innocent motives with this:

Quote

A1 = Dead newborn baby?  [laughing icon]


??

@mips
You are beneath contempt. The PegasosII if it stops being vapourware will be the cheap alternative. It was even mentioned in the article.

@lando
Ive read again, and I still think you have lost it. However you have been looking for blood as far as I was concerned for a long time, maybe now you will feel less frustrated?  :-P
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Hooligan_DCS on June 11, 2003, 06:41:02 PM
Maybe we could agree that AmigaOne sucks, OS4 will suck.
Pegasos suck, and MorphOS suck.

Should make everyone happy, even Dave I'd imagine.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: on June 11, 2003, 06:41:15 PM
Quote
@mdma

Then I owe you an apology, but how do you square your innocent motives with this:

Quote:


    A1 = Dead newborn baby? [laughing icon]



??


I thought it was funny.  If it said "Pegasos = Dead newborn baby", i'd still think it was funny.  I must have a sick sense of humour,  as I thought the N.Korean site that Kenny posted was hillarious too.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: meerschaum on June 11, 2003, 06:54:17 PM
Quote
You are beneath contempt


ok your majesty... shall I sent geevs to fetch your parasol and commoner shoes so you can take a stroll?

that guys comment has one part mentioning pegasos and not saying its any superior...and it wasnt a Peg2 he even mentioned..

Quote
Maybe a powerPC board like the amigaone or pegasos uses, but that is far more expensive and slower than a x86.


thats his exact quote... I believe he was referring to both Peg and A1 as dead newborns and not just A1...however you chose to vent antisentiment at Peg2 calling it 'vapour'  and whatnot... when it has no bearing on this whatsoever...you can call anything vapour... like for example I can call Windows Longhorn 'vapour' but in the common sense of the word its not vapour since there have been releases of windows before and probably will be releases in the future...therefore it would be called a 'release date'...gotta wait until its over-due to call it 'vapour' ...

Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: kd7ota on June 11, 2003, 07:05:18 PM
Dear Amigans,
I have been reading alot of stuff lately on the AmigaOS 4. Yes, some new OS called Pegasos or something has been coming up alot lately on Amiga.org. I dont know what that OS is all about, nor will I think its going to do any good because its new.  If people want an alternative OS for power, they will go to Linux.  Amiga is an awsome OS on the other hand.  Amiga has been out since the 85'.  Atari is just dead for computers.  Atari 2600 is god's gaming console and has many fasinating games on it.  I am still sticking around till OS4 comes out, then we can say what we want about it because it will be out. Thanks.

Your buddy,
Strongbad :-D
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: mikeymike on June 11, 2003, 07:08:26 PM
@ kd7ota

The platform is Pegasos.  The OS is MorphOS.

If you don't know anything about it, then surely you shouldn't be venturing an opinion on it?
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: seer on June 11, 2003, 07:43:15 PM
And another thread down the toilet...

How long ago was this ??? (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2785)

Ah well..
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: kd7ota on June 11, 2003, 08:35:48 PM
Dear Mikeyamiga,
Why would you want to restart an OS once again?  Do you really think its going to dominate over Micro$oft?  Just stick to either PC, MAC, or Linux.  PC hardware costs much less. I wont want to be buying a $800 cpu form software hut for my Amiga 1200 that is a G2 at 233mhz. There is just no way I will ever do that. My brother is going to buy a 2.4gig Pentium 4 that will dominate with its DDR ram, while Amigas now are stuck with old SIM.  Yes, Amiga is a really great OS, but it would be the greatest of them all if it was ported over to x86.  And no, I dont want to hear flames back at me. Its the truth, is PC hardware much cheaper and better performing. Imagine having a ATI Radeon 9700 fully supported for AmigaOS and having ATI doing the drivers. That would be the day.

Your friend,
Strongbad.
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 13, 2003, 12:18:54 PM
@mips

Glad you have joined the rational debate again:

Quote


thats his exact quote... I believe he was referring to both Peg and A1 as dead newborns and not just A1...however you chose to vent antisentiment at Peg2 calling it 'vapour' and whatnot... when it has no bearing on this whatsoever...you can call anything vapour...


Oh and maybe not. Maybe you need to read what I put again, I quote:

Quote

Sure we KNOW the A1 is "expensive" but the as of the moment vapourware PegasosII ain't been released yet.


Which means what it sayes on the tin. We KNOW the A1 is expensive but until the vapourware PegasosII gets released at a LOWER price point its all we got.

But of course, being mips looking for a fight, you decided to twist it in your own head into being anti-Genesi. This is what I find beneath contempt. You then have the cheek to start laying into me!

Just because you LIKE everything Genesi related and BELIEVE in their ability to deliver does not make Pegasos II anything less than vapourware at the moment or the release of projected prices as being anything other than marketing.

Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: Warface on June 13, 2003, 02:09:19 PM
Quote

kd7ota wrote:
 Imagine having a ATI Radeon 9700 fully supported for AmigaOS and having ATI doing the drivers. That would be the day.


Don't want to ruin your day, but MorphOS has 2D support for Radeon cards up to 8500 (and somewhat beyond), and Radeon support for OS4 is evolving nicely too. Having 3D is just a matter of time as well.

Both AmigaONE and the Pegasos uses (except the motherboard and the CPU) cheap PC hardware parts.

And are VERY fast even on mediocre HW by today's standards, compared to either Win/Mac/Linux, even when 68K emulation is involved.

AmigaOS sure have drawbacks, and it takes effort and time to eliminate them, but on the other hand it has an excellent, I dare to say unmatched architecture.

IMHO of course :-)
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: mikeymike on June 13, 2003, 02:51:11 PM
Who is Mikeyamiga?
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: meerschaum on June 13, 2003, 02:58:43 PM
how does pegaso2, its price, its not bieng released right now have ANYTHING to do with that guys opinon that the A1/Peg are pieces of sh*t ?... nothing... it's just you useing this as an excuse to spew antisentiment... anyone who didnt spot that is either blind or on your side...
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 13, 2003, 03:38:13 PM
I just explained it for you mips. If you didn't have your anti-DaveP blinkers on when you read it you would see it. If I replaced the word "vapourware" with "unreleased"  and had the nickname Warface you wouldn't have batted an eyelid ;-)

Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: on June 13, 2003, 03:57:04 PM
Quote

DaveP wrote:
I just explained it for you mips. If you didn't have your anti-DaveP blinkers on when you read it you would see it. If I replaced the word "vapourware" with "unreleased"  and had the nickname Warface you wouldn't have batted an eyelid ;-)



Vapourware has negative connotations, unreleased just means unreleased.  You know this as well as I do Dave, you're not thick.

Compare the following sentances

“ The AmigaONE motherboard is sold to run Hyperions vapourware product ‘AmigaOS4’ ”

“ The AmigaONE motherboard is sold to run Hyperions as yet unreleased product ‘AmigaOS4’ ”

Which one would make you pissed off? It's all in the wording.

I think that is the point mips is trying to make, and I think you do too. :-D
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: DaveP on June 13, 2003, 04:12:53 PM
Of course I know what his beef really is, but he had to throw in all that easiy contended extra BS ;-) :-P

If hed have said "Hey don't call it vapourware that is an overloaded phrase which I find offensive" Id have said "ok then".

However the price of the Peg2 I consider in the "too good to be true" container so I am more cynical about it coming into being at that exact price PLUS the main point was about how expensive the A1 was PLUS it had your laughing smiley around the most A1 critical point. Hence vapourware more likely to come from my lips ;-)

 :-P  :-P
Title: Re: Outsiders view of Amiga Community
Post by: on June 13, 2003, 04:35:57 PM
Quote
However the price of the Peg2 I consider in the "too good to be true" container so I am more cynical about it coming into being at that exact price


You can already buy a Peg 1 for $299.
Title: Re: DaveP, the Troll
Post by: dammy on June 13, 2003, 05:30:59 PM
by DaveP on 2003/6/11 8:17:18

Quote
Its a retaliation game, yes. Abso-bloody-lutely.


What an interesting way of saying your a troll.

Dammy