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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 07:46:56 AM

Title: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 07:46:56 AM
From the news post: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58688
 
Quote from: Transition;652928
The AmigaOne X1000 is not like other computers. It is the natural evolution of the Amiga's PowerPC lineage and is a culmination of efforts by real Amiga enthusiasts, developers and betatesters to create powerful, modern desktop hardware for the Amiga Operating System.

That's a pretty bold statement!
 

Realistically, they may clap their hands if this becomes more famous than Amiga OS 3.1/3.9 and the ClassicWB versions of it.
With the price tag of the X1000 being way over even of a good 4000/3000 PPC system, "real Amiga enthusiasts" will scratch their heads a few times, before buying this.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: takemehomegrandma on August 04, 2011, 07:59:55 AM
Quote from: buzzfuzz;652948
that's a pretty bold statement!


iTS TEH REEEL!11!!1!

Ben Hermans and that ssolie guy says so, so it must be true!
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Cammy on August 04, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Does this really need its own thread? At least Aeon and Hyperion are actually doing something to help the Amiga community, what are you doing other than hoarding computers that other people could be using?
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: AmigaNG on August 04, 2011, 11:00:54 AM
Agreed, if you dont like the X1000 and it statements no need to create new threads to bash it, bash it in it own thread :hammer: or how about just ignoring them. :) I for one think this is good news for AmigaOS4 fans, and I'm one of them.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 12:01:52 PM
Well I actually do read the little notice and the news posting is not for discussion.

What I do for the Amiga community ?
Helping people, that's my daily job also and trying to be friendly.

Quote from: Cammy;652956
Does this really need its own thread? At least Aeon and Hyperion are actually doing something to help the Amiga community, what are you doing other than hoarding computers that other people could be using?

Well it's not bashing, but we haven't seen a single bit of proof of it.
 
Quote from: AmigaNG;652967
Agreed, if you down like the X1000 and it statements no need to create new threads to bash it, bash it in it own thread :hammer: or how about just ignoring them. :)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Franko on August 04, 2011, 12:15:05 PM
Quote from: Cammy;652956
Does this really need its own thread? At least Aeon and Hyperion are actually doing something to help the Amiga community, what are you doing other than hoarding computers that other people could be using?


He's probably just like you Cammy (with all your Amigas) and enjoys them so much... ;)

People do collect things you know and like to have the full set, so to speak. There are always plenty of Amigas for sale on eBay, so hoarding them is rather harsh and who's to say anyone would buy his if he did have them for sale... :)

I have 7 A1200's and use them all, as each has it's own different set up and uses... :)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 12:51:51 PM
Yep, and I actually enjoy tuning them, but it takes time, lots of time ;)
 
Quote from: Franko;652971
He's probably just like you Cammy (with all your Amigas) and enjoys them so much... ;)

 

I have 7 A1200's and use them all, as each has it's own different set up and uses... :)

But while we are at it, how about this ?
 
Board is ready and your X1000 is ready to rock and roll, it has OS4.2 on it (that is what it seems to be getting on it) and it all runs fine.
You can internet on it, you can play audio on it, so your favorite mp3's and all things and it can even show your video's.
 
And then ?
 
It can't play modern pc games, or any other platform like Xbox or Playstation, other than Amiga Classic, it may be able to do the ported Quake and so on, but it won't play Call Of Duty or Need For Speed for example.
 
At most offices they use Word and Excell, so here comes an email with a word document, you may be able to read it if that exists on OS4.1, but can you also fully edit it ?
You get a PDF also, again it might be able to read it, but can you also edit it ?
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: itix on August 04, 2011, 01:43:12 PM
@Buzzfuzz

The announcement is self praising but the actual product is still months away so I guess it is ok to let them have their 15 minutes.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Varthall on August 04, 2011, 02:38:05 PM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;652982
But while we are at it, how about this ?
 
Board is ready and your X1000 is ready to rock and roll, it has OS4.2 on it (that is what it seems to be getting on it) and it all runs fine.
You can internet on it, you can play audio on it, so your favorite mp3's and all things and it can even show your video's.
 
And then ?
 
It can't play modern pc games, or any other platform like Xbox or Playstation, other than Amiga Classic, it may be able to do the ported Quake and so on, but it won't play Call Of Duty or Need For Speed for example.
 
At most offices they use Word and Excell, so here comes an email with a word document, you may be able to read it if that exists on OS4.1, but can you also fully edit it ?
You get a PDF also, again it might be able to read it, but can you also edit it ?

Not everyone uses a computer for the same tasks. For example, I'm not interested in playing modern PC games on my Amiga (and if I would, I probably wouldn't find time for it). I occasionally (i.e. once every one-two months) play a single game under Windows, but that's all. Speaking in general, it's true that it won't fulfill the needs of the vast majority of the computer users, but it will make happy those that like it and find it useful.

BTW I edit Word and Excel documents using Abiword and Gnumeric. Regarding PDF, I have never tried before but I guess it supports PDFs as well.

Varthall
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: dreamcast270mhz on August 04, 2011, 03:38:23 PM
Any contribution to the Amiga community that isn't intel is freaking awesome, and people continue to bash it.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: persia on August 04, 2011, 03:45:28 PM
I don't get the problem.  Everyday from dawn to dusk and beyond we get blasted with advertising hype, if everybody else in the world uses hype in their advertising why can't a-eon?
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: kickstart on August 04, 2011, 04:17:11 PM
News about x1000 are usually boring, sometimes a picture of the board, sometimes just words, hyperion and aeon have the bad side of the amiga, the promises... ok, they make something for the amiga community but for some reason they are not very welcome by all amiga users.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 04, 2011, 04:29:19 PM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;652982
Board is ready and your X1000 is ready to rock and roll, it has OS4.2 on it (that is what it seems to be getting on it) and it all runs fine.
You can internet on it, you can play audio on it, so your favorite mp3's and all things and it can even show your video's.
 
And then ?
 
It can't play modern pc games, or any other platform like Xbox or Playstation, other than Amiga Classic, it may be able to do the ported Quake and so on, but it won't play Call Of Duty or Need For Speed for example.
 
At most offices they use Word and Excell, so here comes an email with a word document, you may be able to read it if that exists on OS4.1, but can you also fully edit it ?
You get a PDF also, again it might be able to read it, but can you also edit it ?
Could dual-boot Debian and run it pretty nicely, if the specs on the A-Eon website are still up to date. That'll open up a lot more software options than OS4 presently has. (And yes, you can't run x86 Windows-binary games, but that's true of any non-x86 system. But you do have access to any of the many open-source games out there, and some mainstream game companies like iD Software even support Linux users.)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: dreamcast270mhz on August 04, 2011, 04:35:22 PM
CommodoreJohn,

Could also run Mac-On Linux I imagine.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 04, 2011, 04:51:15 PM
Yeah, I imagine so.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: jorkany on August 04, 2011, 05:03:44 PM
The real question is: does OS4.2 support the XMOS chip and Xorro bus, and does it utilize the second CPU core? Because those are the features that pretty much justified the creation of the X1000 in the first place.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 06:48:53 PM
Again, I'm not bashing it, if I was, I would use words like junk and rubbish.
 
But it's like they say that this will replace every Amiga, while I haven't seen it playing any Amiga games.
If it's emulating a 020 then every Amiga with a 030 out there will be a tad faster, and then we haven't even gotten to the 040's and 060's.
 
So you tell me, at the price it will probably sell, does it the package justify the load ?
 
Quote from: dreamcast270mhz;653016
Any contribution to the Amiga community that isn't intel is freaking awesome, and people continue to bash it.

That is good one also, we also haven't seen or heard anything about that.
 

Quote from: jorkany;653028
The real question is: does OS4.2 support the XMOS chip and Xorro bus, and does it utilize the second CPU core? Because those are the features that pretty much justified the creation of the X1000 in the first place.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: tone007 on August 04, 2011, 06:50:57 PM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;653032
If it's emulating a 020 then every Amiga with a 030 out there will be a tad faster, and then we haven't even gotten to the 040's and 060's.


You're stuck in hardware land.  An emulated '020 can be way faster than the fastest hardware '060, unless of course you're throttling the emulated '020 to a particular speed.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: jorkany on August 04, 2011, 07:05:06 PM
Quote from: tone007;653033
You're stuck in hardware land.  An emulated '020 can be way faster than the fastest hardware '060, unless of course you're throttling the emulated '020 to a particular speed.


He's a real hardware man
Living in his hardware land
Making all his hardware plans
For '060 emulation
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 07:05:20 PM
Ok, but then it's doing the same as WinUAE or even AROS for that matter.
I can do that on my PC and even faster than the X-1000.
 
Besides the real Amiga's and PC / Mac people have, still remains what you could do with it ?
 
Quote from: tone007;653033
You're stuck in hardware land. An emulated '020 can be way faster than the fastest hardware '060, unless of course you're throttling the emulated '020 to a particular speed.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: tone007 on August 04, 2011, 07:06:59 PM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;653036
Besides the real Amiga's and PC / Mac people have, still remains what you could do with it ?


Run AmigaOS4.2!
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 07:25:13 PM
:) yeah I get that, but then we are back to square one, people still can't give me a good reason for it what to do with it.
 
If all it can do is internet, audio and video, then most people would rather use their PC or Mac here, or not ?
Most Amiga users want to play games, and if it can't do that either, then what ?
 
Quote from: tone007;653037
Run AmigaOS4.2!
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Franko on August 04, 2011, 07:55:05 PM
Sorry I was just passing through this thread on me way to another, so while I'm here I may as well just say...

Wibble... :D

Now I'm of to the thread I meant to go to in the first place, dunno why I wandered in here but it was nice while it lasted... ta ra... :)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Leifern on August 04, 2011, 10:27:17 PM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;653041

If all it can do is internet, audio and video, then most people would rather use their PC or Mac here, or not ?
Most Amiga users want to play games, and if it can't do that either, then what ?


I want to do all the same things I do on my PC and MAC, except recording/mixing. I'll stick to the MAC there. Write, listen to music, trackers, multitrackrecorders, softsynths and samplers, browsing, e-mail, chatting etc. etc. I'd rather do on an Amiga.

I love the Amiga-enviroment, and using it makes me feal good. I get more confident and more creative using the Amiga. To me using an Amiga is like coming home after years abroad.
I haven't had the chance to try OS4, but if it feels like an Amiga I'm happy. :)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: billt on August 04, 2011, 10:32:38 PM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;653041
:) yeah I get that, but then we are back to square one, people still can't give me a good reason for it what to do with it.


Uhm... If you can't figure out what to do with an Amiga (or -alike, whatever) today, what are you still doing around these parts??!
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: takemehomegrandma on August 04, 2011, 10:41:14 PM
Quote from: dreamcast270mhz;653016
Any contribution to the Amiga community that isn't intel is freaking awesome, and people continue to bash it.


There is nothing awesome about this, the thing failed on planning/design stage already (that performance to that price), and actually pushing it through to a real PCB is nothing but moronic. It won't do anything at all for Amiga. It won't even do anything at all for OS4 either, other than showing the world that *if this* was what they had to offer, then there is no serious plan for OS4, no sustainable future, etc, and the people behind the OS4 project are sitting in a stasis field with tin-foil hats to shield them off from the reality the rest of the world lives in.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: jorkany on August 04, 2011, 11:01:58 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;653078
There is nothing awesome about this, the thing failed on planning/design stage already (that performance to that price), and actually pushing it through to a real PCB is nothing but moronic. It won't do anything at all for Amiga. It won't even do anything at all for OS4 either, other than showing the world that *if this* was what they had to offer, then there is no serious plan for OS4, no sustainable future, etc, and the people behind the OS4 project are sitting in a stasis field with tin-foil hats to shield them off from the reality the rest of the world lives in.


Pretty much agree 100%.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: raddude9 on August 04, 2011, 11:02:43 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;653078
There is nothing awesome about this


It is possible new Amiga hardware, with some innovative new features running a new version of AmigaOS. If you don't think that is awesome you are looking at the wrong web site!

Me, I'm a little bit excited, though a bit jaded of course. Despite that I wish them luck and I hope they can bring their new hardware to the market.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Kesa on August 04, 2011, 11:18:29 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;653078
There is nothing awesome about this, the thing failed on planning/design stage already (that performance to that price), and actually pushing it through to a real PCB is nothing but moronic. It won't do anything at all for Amiga. It won't even do anything at all for OS4 either, other than showing the world that *if this* was what they had to offer, then there is no serious plan for OS4, no sustainable future, etc, and the people behind the OS4 project are sitting in a stasis field with tin-foil hats to shield them off from the reality the rest of the world lives in.

I disagree. I don't think the X1000 was aimed at revolutionizing the Amiga platform i think it is aimed at a select few people who want one to support their favorite hobby. If i bought one of these it would be because i find it interesting and not for just work purposes. Trevor himself stated a long time ago in an interview that the Amiga was nothing more than a hobbiest platform. Also i think people are willing to spend more if it is something they are interested in such as a hobby as opposed to something they don't give a crap about.  

As for it being a 'failure' that is a matter of opinion. With a guaranteed sales of 100% for all boards being made i would definitely call that a success. For it's intended purpose they have done everything right. I think maybe these problems they are having might actually increase their value over time. I mean, who want to collect something that was easy to make?

I predict the X1000 in ten years time after being released (if they are) will become highly desirable to collectors looking for something classy and exotic. The X1000 is exotic and i think it's a shame all you see is the performance.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: amigadave on August 04, 2011, 11:24:57 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;653078
There is nothing awesome about this, the thing failed on planning/design stage already (that performance to that price), and actually pushing it through to a real PCB is nothing but moronic. It won't do anything at all for Amiga. It won't even do anything at all for OS4 either, other than showing the world that *if this* was what they had to offer, then there is no serious plan for OS4, no sustainable future, etc, and the people behind the OS4 project are sitting in a stasis field with tin-foil hats to shield them off from the reality the rest of the world lives in.

I am an avid MorphOS supporter and I do not agree with your statements above at all.  Yes, the AmigaOne X1000 is under powered and over priced.  That is well documented and debated and no one seems to be trying to refute that fact, but this product does help the Amiga community as a whole and specifically the OS4 group, as it is a significant step up from the SAM boards they are currently using and more than that, it is a show of determination by a few individuals, regardless of the money they may lose on their efforts.  The people that are invested in the X1000 project know that there is very little chance to recover even a fraction of the total investment to get to this point and the number of sales will likely be only in the low hundreds, not the thousands that they would need to break even.  But still they are determined to follow through and complete this project to produce the fastest and most modern AmigaOne for OS4 users and developers.

I have many disagreements with some of the aggressive and blindly faithful OS4 fanboys who spout crap and outright lies on many of the forum sites, but I do not object to the legitimate Amiga fans and users that only want to run the OS of their choice on the fastest and best hardware that they can get their hands on.  Trevor is  a great Amiga fan and a nice guy.  In my opinion, and the opinion of some others, he might have been mislead and made some choices that have not turned out to be the best for a possible financial gain, or even break even on this project, but I give him a whole lot of credit for completing it.  He wanted the best AmigaOne OS4 machine he could get and has persevered to the end regardless of what it is going to cost him, or all the negative comments from the many naysayers who have criticized his choices.  He is a true Amiga fan that took a chance and all of us on the sidelines can either criticize him or cheer him on (I have done both from time to time).

I would not buy any SAM board and most likely will not buy an X1000, but I am willing to look at what they have to offer and listen to their arguments for why they (the OS4 users and developers) think anyone should buy their systems and OS instead of the other Amiga alternatives.  If they can convince me that they have a better system, hardware, software, OS, development tools, support, etc., then someday I might switch to their side and buy an OS4 system.  Until that time, I will stick with what I now use and enjoy in while keeping an eye open to what all other alternatives are doing and also still enjoying my old Classic systems and watching what the Natami, Minimig & FPGA Arcade guys are doing.

It is a great time for Amiga users, because they have so many choices to satisfy their Amiga addiction.  Now all we need is more developers to make more and better software for all of us to use.  A key factor to this happening is cooperation between developers for cross-platform development.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: dreamcast270mhz on August 04, 2011, 11:25:04 PM
Takemehomegrandma

Sounds to me like you belong somewhere else, you're being immature, and lets face it, besides the cost involved, it is the closest thing we have had to real hardware.

You disagree, thats okay but you need not be a nobhead about it.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 11:27:44 PM
I can and I know how to, I've been around for a while!
 
Just give me one good reason why I should spent around 1500 euro for a machine that runs OS4.2 or whatever it will be, if you can think of more than one, please, write it down here.
 
Quote from: billt;653077
Uhm... If you can't figure out what to do with an Amiga (or -alike, whatever) today, what are you still doing around these parts??!
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Duce on August 04, 2011, 11:34:47 PM
If you don't find it worth the asking price, don't buy one, lol.  I love my SAM and OS 4.1, but the x1000 is far out of my pricerange and wouldn't do anything my lowly SAM 440ep wouldn't do.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: kurkosdr on August 04, 2011, 11:36:51 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;653025
(And yes, you can't run x86 Windows-binary games, but that's true of any non-x86 system. But you do have access to any of the many open-source games out there, and some mainstream game companies like iD Software even support Linux users.)
Yeah, but those ID software games are x86-only binaries, right? Like most proprietary linux software is. So you won't be able to run them in a X1000. This is the thing about Linux: It supports 96 different architectures, fridges and car stereos included, but if you go with anything other than x86, you lose whatever little proprietary software there is for Linux.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: cgutjahr on August 04, 2011, 11:40:13 PM
Quote from: Kesa;653089
I disagree. I don't think the X1000 was aimed at revolutionizing the Amiga platform i think it is aimed at a select few people who want one to support their favorite hobby.

You're actually not disagreeing with tmhgm, you're just wording it differently.

As you say, the X1000 is aimed at a "select few people" (that are willing to pay 2000 bucks for an outdated desktop computer as long as it runs AmigaOS). How many of those people are out there? 100? 200? 300? That's not a future, that's a dead end. Not to mention that even if there would be more customers, there are no more CPUs...

Quote

As for it being a 'failure' that is a matter of opinion. With a guaranteed sales of 100% for all boards being made i would definitely call that a success.

For the manufacturer, yes. But what about OS4? How long have we been waiting for USB2 support? A decent 2D/3D graphics system? A filemanager that is not a joke? Some sort of concept for the whole desktop environment that goes beyond "let's try another icon set"? A web browser that doesn't suck?

There are lots of things in OS4 that urgently need improvements. Instead, the dev team is working on a port to some very expensive niche hardware.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 04, 2011, 11:47:04 PM
Well it's price tag isn't so much the problem, I even would (dare I say it ...) sell one of my Cyberstorms to get more funds :)
 
Personally I think if i were to get it, I will use it maybe for a few months and after that I think it will gather dust.
 
Quote from: Duce;653097
If you don't find it worth the asking price, don't buy one, lol. I love my SAM and OS 4.1, but the x1000 is far out of my pricerange and wouldn't do anything my lowly SAM 440ep wouldn't do.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 04, 2011, 11:54:35 PM
Quote from: kurkosdr;653099
Yeah, but those ID software games are x86-only binaries, right?
Are they? I don't recall; I haven't actually kept up with commercial gaming in a while. They do release the source for previous engines when they come out with a new one, so you can run pre-iD Tech 4 (Doom 3 engine) games, at least (and IT4 is supposed to be released GPL sometime this year, I understand.) But yeah, that is a definite problem with Linux gaming...
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Heiroglyph on August 04, 2011, 11:56:44 PM
I'm a fan of anyone making a product in this market.  You have to be a die-hard fan and you can't expect to get rich.

I may not agree with the utility of a custom PPC that isn't significantly cheaper than a used Mac, but I don't hate it.

I just hope that the availability of the X1000 and SAM aren't the lynchpins that are keeping AOS on PPC.  That boat sailed and sank long ago.  We either need affordable PPC's or a different CPU to target.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: amigadave on August 05, 2011, 12:02:04 AM
Quote from: Duce;653097
If you don't find it worth the asking price, don't buy one, lol.  I love my SAM and OS 4.1, but the x1000 is far out of my pricerange and wouldn't do anything my lowly SAM 440ep wouldn't do.

For the sake of the X1000 buyers and Trevor, I hope that the X1000 can do many things that your SAM 440EP can't do!
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Duce on August 05, 2011, 12:29:21 AM
My SAM is more than powerful enough.  The problem is and always will be software to run on said systems.

They aren't too terribly friendly to legacy amiga progs without emulation.  There's no real modern browser, etc.  I could no more use the X1000 as a daily driver PC than I can my SAM.  Can't even navigate modern websites with the thing, for the most part.  I love it for what it is, a niche "fun" machine.  I run an old school BBS on mine, and it does that admirably and completely silently (Patriot SSD, silent PSU).

Could be 5000ghz, 24 cores, 100 GB of RAM and sing and dance - but the software just isn't there for OS 4, lol.

Buzzfuzz:  you are very correct that many people, even myself on occasion - find said systems to just be dust collectors.  It's hard to justify expense vs. function, even for the much lower priced SAM's.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: AmigaNG on August 05, 2011, 09:05:46 AM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;653094
I can and I know how to, I've been around for a while!
 
Just give me one good reason why I should spent around 1500 euro for a machine that runs OS4.2 or whatever it will be, if you can think of more than one, please, write it down here.

My guess is if any PC or Mac fan was reading that they be asking you the very same thing, Why do you own so many outdated computers and still follow the amiga scene?

I have a PC (I actually have three PCs), I have a Game Console (PS3, PSP) and I have 3 classic Amiga's (A1200, Cd32, A1200+040+32mb+HD etc) So why do I still spend time following the Amiga scene, trying out Aros, playing old apps and games either though Amiga Forever or on my Classic Amiga, because I still have fun with it. And I would really liked to do some of the modern stuff I do on my PC on my Amiga, simple because I want to. I hope when I finally get an OS4 machine (depending on price weather I can afford a X1000 or not) I am able to use my PC just a little less and just have fun with an Amiga system again (I hope).

Its simple a hobby and fun for me to use, for me it would be a real bonus if anything came out on the new Amiga that could massively out perform the other platform, but I dout that will be the case (expect the Reset, if it still 7sceonds thats faster than my PS3 loads a game! and my guess it might be my fastest machine for getting me on the net, little things like this will make me like and use the Amiga more and more.)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Fairdinkem on August 05, 2011, 11:42:11 AM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;652982
Yep, and I actually enjoy tuning them, but it takes time, lots of time ;)
 

 
But while we are at it, how about this ?
 
Board is ready and your X1000 is ready to rock and roll, it has OS4.2 on it (that is what it seems to be getting on it) and it all runs fine.
You can internet on it, you can play audio on it, so your favorite mp3's and all things and it can even show your video's.
 
And then ?
 
It can't play modern pc games, or any other platform like Xbox or Playstation, other than Amiga Classic, it may be able to do the ported Quake and so on, but it won't play Call Of Duty or Need For Speed for example.
 
At most offices they use Word and Excell, so here comes an email with a word document, you may be able to read it if that exists on OS4.1, but can you also fully edit it ?
You get a PDF also, again it might be able to read it, but can you also edit it ?

Well it might not play the latest games yet but with multiple core support and Gallium being developed for AmigaOS and PCIe graphics cards the X1000 is a very positive step in the right direction.

Word, Excel and PDF documents have been viewable and editable in AmigaOS for quite some time, also not to mention Trevor Dickinson is funding the AmigaOS port of openoffice light which is a little while off completion but will eventuate.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Varthall on August 05, 2011, 11:47:13 AM
Quote from: cgutjahr;653100
You're actually not disagreeing with tmhgm, you're just wording it differently.

As you say, the X1000 is aimed at a "select few people" (that are willing to pay 2000 bucks for an outdated desktop computer as long as it runs AmigaOS). How many of those people are out there? 100? 200? 300? That's not a future, that's a dead end. Not to mention that even if there would be more customers, there are no more CPUs...

Rogue has stated on Amigaworld.net that there will be a follow-up CPU after the PA-Semi one: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32910&forum=33&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#593794

Quote

For the manufacturer, yes. But what about OS4? How long have we been waiting for USB2 support? A decent 2D/3D graphics system? A filemanager that is not a joke? Some sort of concept for the whole desktop environment that goes beyond "let's try another icon set"? A web browser that doesn't suck?

There are lots of things in OS4 that urgently need improvements. Instead, the dev team is working on a port to some very expensive niche hardware.

They are not working on the port *instead* on working on the other, urgent features: USB2 support has been included in the incoming Update 3, the 2d/3d is being worked on (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=290), and work on Timberwolf and OWB-MUI is also proceeding.

Varthall
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 05, 2011, 02:17:00 PM
Because, just like you I like to play games on my real Amiga's, and I like to mess around with hardware but that's it.
We also have annual meetings here, so my Amiga's are also shown out there.
 
But anything other than that, so internet and present games, my PC takes on that, and with a high end machine, it won't be a problem either :)
 
Quote from: AmigaNG;653184
My guess is if any PC or Mac fan was reading that they be asking you the very same thing, Why do you own so many outdated computers and still follow the amiga scene?
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: cgutjahr on August 05, 2011, 02:41:34 PM
Quote from: Varthall;653200
Rogue has stated on Amigaworld.net that there will be a follow-up CPU after the PA-Semi one

Read it again - he's not stating anything, he's asking a question to shut somebody up. Doesn't mean anything.

My last information was that Trevor Dickinson himself doesn't have a clue what the next step - if any - wil be after the x1000. Perhaps Rogue simply didn't tell him yet ;)

Quote

They are not working on the port *instead* on working on the other, urgent features:

I could argue your points (USB real soon now? honestly?) or make a 2nd and 3rd list with severe shortcomings in OS4. But I won't, because I actually like the product and don't want to end up bashing it. You're using it yourself, I guess you have a pretty good idea about the most urgent problems.

Are you really claiming the OS4 team doesn't lack manpower? That it could easily compensate the loss of the dozen or so skilled and experienced developers who lost interest since the project was started and start porting the OS to a hardware that's going to sell (a lot) less copies than the classic version?
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: jorkany on August 05, 2011, 03:17:14 PM
Quote from: Cammy;652956
Does this really need its own thread? At least Aeon and Hyperion are actually doing something to help the Amiga community


What have Aeon and Hyperion ever done for the Amiga community?

Oh wait, I see where you're going with this! Yes, I guess tearing the community apart qualifies as "doing something for it".


Quote
what are you doing other than hoarding computers that other people could be using?

I can't answer for someone else but I can say, this isn't a charity.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Cammy on August 05, 2011, 11:05:17 PM
Certain individuals within Hyperion may have been detrimental to the Amiga community in the past, and I'm sure everyone regrets something, but right now both teams are trying to provide Amiga users with a product, and although it's taking more time than we'd like and it might not live up to some peoples (unrealistically high) expectations at least they are making progress and we've seen video proof that at least the X1000 boards are being assembled now.

We can't change what happened long ago during the big split, but it's only the people who believe in continuing to fight against the other sides who are hurting the Amiga community. Isn't it time to forgive the mistakes of the past and offer some support and encouragement to the few people who are still actually trying to create something for us to use? I don't see the point in these threads being started to attack a small group of developers who are doing their best to provide us with something they hope we'll enjoy using for fun, just as we do with our classic Amigas. They're not trying to create a product to rival Microsoft or Apple, and never claimed to be.

Why would a "real Amiga enthusiast" want to run Microsoft Word or Excel on an Amiga anyway? If you're so desperate to play something as complex as Call of Duty then you should probably just use a PC and stop holding your breath for a couple of guys with hardly any financial backing or support to come up with something similar for an Amiga system.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: amigadave on August 05, 2011, 11:34:21 PM
Unless the X1000 and SAM460 boards inspire more development and additions to the Hyperion OS4 Team, I think the continuing development of OS4 is on shaky ground.

My choice of Next Gen AmigaOS, MorphOS, is not on much better ground and could cease to be developed at any time, if the MorphOS Development Team started to fall apart and lose interest.  I hope, and don't think that this is about to happen, but could happen in the not too distant future, if they decide that it is too much work and not worth the effort to finally move to a different architecture AND there is no reasonable new PPC hardware to port to in the near future. Edit: By near future, I mean the next few years.  The MorphOS Dev. Team has plenty of work to do on the existing ports of MorphOS2.x on G4 hardware and might decide to go forward with porting to the G5 PowerMacs and maybe the G5 iMac's too, so they have plenty of work to do for at least a couple of years before they start running out of improvements for the G4 & G5 and need to make a decision about which CPU to port to next, or if they want to stop development and do something different.  There is also a chance that a fast, new PPC CPU will be created within the next couple of years for the embedded market that is fast enough and cheap enough to make porting MorphOS to it a worthwhile effort.  End Edit:

Since this thread is supposed to be about the OS for the X1000, I wonder if the AROS Team will consider porting AROS to the X1000?  AROS has a higher probability to survive into the future than any of the other Next Gen choices, because it is Open Source and already runs on a wider range of hardware than any of the other choices.

It will be interesting to see what happens when one, or both of the current Amiga PPC OSes stops development, where the existing users will go.  Will they switch to the other remaining PPC alternative, or will they finally switch to AROS?  Or possibly they will give up on Next Gen Amiga OSes and revert to enjoying Classic AmigaOS3.x and earlier versions, just for fun and forget about using any kind of Amiga experience for anything except playing and writing code for 68k games, which they can enjoy on their modern PC's with WinUAE, or EUAE, or on their antique 68k Classic Amiga hardware if it is still running.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: ddniUK on August 05, 2011, 11:34:47 PM
+1

Great post Cammy!
You're one in a million.
Now lets lock this thread and go home!
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 06, 2011, 12:03:29 AM
Quote from: Cammy;653273
Why would a "real Amiga enthusiast" want to run Microsoft Word or Excel on an Amiga anyway? If you're so desperate to play something as complex as Call of Duty then you should probably just use a PC and stop holding your breath for a couple of guys with hardly any financial backing or support to come up with something similar for an Amiga system.
Quoted for truth. It seems like there's a lot of people in this community who suffer from such a massive inferiority complex that they've decided the Amiga should just be a PC. What's the point in that?
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: nicholas on August 06, 2011, 12:04:44 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;653285
Quoted for truth. It seems like there's a lot of people in this community who suffer from such a massive inferiority complex that they've decided the Amiga should just be a PC. What's the point in that?

AROS and Amithlon are both as much Amiga as they are PC. :)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 06, 2011, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: nicholas;653286
AROS and Amithlon are both as much Amiga as they are PC. :)
Well, I'm not referring to the cross-platform compatibility projects so much as I am these people who whine about not being able to use Excel or whatever on their Amiga. The logic seems to go:


Guys, it's okay to use more than one platform. It doesn't make you a traitor to the cause.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: nicholas on August 06, 2011, 12:22:33 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;653291
Well, I'm not referring to the cross-platform compatibility projects so much as I am these people who whine about not being able to use Excel or whatever on their Amiga. The logic seems to go:

  • "I hate PCs and don't want to have to use them for anything,"
  • "I need to use Program X but don't want to do it on a PC,"
  • "Program X therefore needs to be available on the Amiga,"
  • "Nobody wants to port or clone Program X for the Amiga as it stands,"
  • "Therefore the only practical solution is to change the definition of 'Amiga' to be whatever environment is needed to run Program X without porting or cloning,"
  • "Now that I've redefined 'Amiga' to mean 'Intel PC,' I don't have to hate using one anymore!"

Guys, it's okay to use more than one platform. It doesn't make you a traitor to the cause.

+1 :)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: dreamcast270mhz on August 06, 2011, 12:58:10 AM
I use Amithlon, but I do dislike the fact it feels nothing like a classic amiga, I have since demoed a Micro A1, which I was impressed with, a Sam440, which, while neat was disappointing in responsiveness.

I Await the X1k, and I will consider buying one, If I seriously have the money. If not the Sam 460 looks like a cool option.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Kesa on August 06, 2011, 01:52:00 AM
Quote from: dreamcast270mhz;653294
I use Amithlon, but I do dislike the fact it feels nothing like a classic amiga, I have since demoed a Micro A1, which I was impressed with, a Sam440, which, while neat was disappointing in responsiveness.

I Await the X1k, and I will consider buying one, If I seriously have the money. If not the Sam 460 looks like a cool option.

:confused:
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: dreamcast270mhz on August 06, 2011, 02:15:15 AM
X1000. K stands for kilo, or 1000, as in kilogram or kilometer :)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Kesa on August 06, 2011, 04:15:23 AM
Quote from: dreamcast270mhz;653298
X1000. K stands for kilo, or 1000, as in kilogram or kilometer :)

HAHA! i know! I was just wondering why X1000 is so hard to type  ;)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: actung_bab on August 06, 2011, 08:23:48 AM
Quote from: Cammy;652956
Does this really need its own thread? At least Aeon and Hyperion are actually doing something to help the Amiga community, what are you doing other than hoarding computers that other people could be using?
totally agree 110 %
its put up or shut up and alot them just greddy have money out bid drive the prices up
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 06, 2011, 08:27:24 AM
Seriously, why are you defending them so hard ?
 
Like Amigadave said, it's all on shaky grounds, so what, just take a leap of faith ?
 
Quote from: Cammy;653273

Why would a "real Amiga enthusiast" want to run Microsoft Word or Excel on an Amiga anyway? If you're so desperate to play something as complex as Call of Duty then you should probably just use a PC and stop holding your breath for a couple of guys with hardly any financial backing or support to come up with something similar for an Amiga system.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: actung_bab on August 06, 2011, 08:35:40 AM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;653094
I can and I know how to, I've been around for a while!
 
Just give me one good reason why I should spent around 1500 euro for a machine that runs OS4.2 or whatever it will be, if you can think of more than one, please, write it down here.
thats silly its up to you to deicde if you want to buy something
and as its not yet in production to buy its bit early to judge whats its real world appeal will be
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: XDelusion on August 06, 2011, 08:43:41 AM
I kind of hope it becomes an all in one box not unlike what Amiga was said to have been heading towards before everything collapsed. That being an Amiga that could also run Mac OS and Windows at very reasonable speeds.

Now mind you, I've no intention to run OS X or Windows on any of my Amigas even if I could, but I think with that secondary programmable processor or what ever it is, coupled with the already fast hardware that is present on this board, I would think they you'd have the perfect platform to not only trick this system into thinking it has the original Amiga chip set available, but also to trick it into thinking it is all sorts of other hardware. All while leaving the main processor free to do it's thing!

Or do I have my facts all wrong?
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 06, 2011, 09:00:20 AM
I have no intention either of doing that, I have a PC for that :)
I certainly hope that OS 4.2 can do what you are saying.
 
Quote from: XDelusion;653340

Now mind you, I've no intention to run OS X or Windows on any of my Amigas even if I could, but I think with that secondary programmable processor or what ever it is, coupled with the already fast hardware that is present on this board, I would think they you'd have the perfect platform to not only trick this system into thinking it has the original Amiga chip set available, but also to trick it into thinking it is all sorts of other hardware. All while leaving the main processor free to do it's thing!
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: itix on August 06, 2011, 10:41:51 AM
Quote from: amigadave;653279
Since this thread is supposed to be about the OS for the X1000, I wonder if the AROS Team will consider porting AROS to the X1000?


PPC is completely wrong target platform for AROS development.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: nicholas on August 06, 2011, 12:05:55 PM
Quote from: itix;653348
PPC is completely wrong target platform for AROS development.


The A-Cube motherboards already have a working AROS port.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: XDelusion on August 06, 2011, 01:08:46 PM
I'd like (when it is a bit more finely polished) to see AROS running on one of those hand held touch screen devices personally.

I see the X1000 as an Amiga OS 4 machine and that's what (if I see it being worth while) will buy one for, that being to have the best OS4 machine possible...

...though we'll see, it all depends upon the developers.

One thing the Amiga (all variants) could really go for is some original apps. I LOVE the ports, keep them up, but I miss the old days when you could go through Aminet and find all sorts of exotic software that was very original, unique, and only on Amiga.

Showgirls I feel would be one great example of such software.

In regards to OS4, that extra processor once again could be the key...

Of course that might tick off OS4 users that don't have an X1000, having software that their hardware don't support. Then again, if the X1000 becomes that good, then it would also serve as incentive to purchase one.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: itix on August 06, 2011, 01:34:29 PM
Quote from: nicholas;653357
The A-Cube motherboards already have a working AROS port.


And it serves only for technology demo. It can not run 68k binaries so it is better run AROS natively on x86 or m68 hardware (i.e. Natami if it ever gets released).
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 06, 2011, 03:30:04 PM
Quote from: itix;653372
And it serves only for technology demo. It can not run 68k binaries so it is better run AROS natively on x86 or m68 hardware (i.e. Natami if it ever gets released).
What is needed then is a PPC implementation of a 68k emulator...
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: dreamcast270mhz on August 06, 2011, 04:17:03 PM
E-UAE runs on MorphOS.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Duce on August 06, 2011, 04:25:24 PM
Several UAE type solutions for PPC/OS 4 as well.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 06, 2011, 04:36:00 PM
Yeah, but it's still a separate emulator, right? Something like the OS-integrated emulation on Power Macs would be nice for use with OS-friendly apps.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: ddniUK on August 06, 2011, 04:46:18 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;653391
Yeah, but it's still a separate emulator, right? Something like the OS-integrated emulation on Power Macs would be nice for use with OS-friendly apps.

Is this not Petunia, a feature of OS4 for years?
http://www.amiga.hu/amigos/rachy/petunia.html
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Duce on August 06, 2011, 05:17:57 PM
OS4 has Petunia built in, and there's UAE and various GUI interfaces for said UAE.  Works well and quite seamlessly, for the most part.

I'm not a gamer, but most of the productivity and comms stuff I run that's 68k legacy runs just fine on my SAM 440/OS 4.1u2.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: amigadave on August 06, 2011, 06:24:16 PM
@itix & commodorejohn,

Both MorphOS and OS4 CAN run many Amiga 68k binaries natively, the ones that are OS3.x friendly and do not bang the hardware.  For all other Amiga 68k programs, such as hardware banging games, UAE can be integrated into both OS4 and MorphOS very seamlessly with just a bit of scripting.  All of the above has been available for a long time, so your posts are surprisingly uninformed.  Check out a OS4, or MorphOS forum some time and you will learn a lot more.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: AmigaNG on August 06, 2011, 06:37:49 PM
Buzzfuzz (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=7603), just out of curiosity, why is this thread titled OS for the X1000, when it clearly nothing about that, it should of been titled "bold statement" or something. Just wondered.  
 
Quote from: jorkany;653216
What have Aeon and Hyperion ever done for the Amiga community?.

One of the few companies to support Amiga shows, (and no they are not OS4 special show it just seem that OS4 supporter seem to support them more).

Advertising and support one of the last major Amiga Magazine, that covers, Aros, MorpthOS and Classic scene. Amiga Future

Supporting one of the last major retailer in the Amiga world Amiga Kit.

Supporting various Bounty's and projects, that usually befits all amiga ng platforms.

Supporting developers with Loner hardware projects.

Still supporting the Classic Amiga PPC line.

etc.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: nicholas on August 06, 2011, 07:14:45 PM
Quote from: itix;653372
And it serves only for technology demo. It can not run 68k binaries so it is better run AROS natively on x86 or m68 hardware (i.e. Natami if it ever gets released).


Neither can AROS on x86 so it's just as useless/useful as the PPC port.

99% of AROS software is open source anyway so the CPU architecture it runs on its largely irrelevant.

What AROS PPC does need is binary compatibility with MorphOS and/or OS4 software.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: itix on August 06, 2011, 07:33:20 PM
Quote from: nicholas;653408
What AROS PPC does need is binary compatibility with MorphOS and/or OS4 software.

If AROS/PPC was MorphOS compatible you would need only small 68k emulation layer to make it 68k compatible... but I still dont see point for AROS/PPC. AROS lacks on so many areas but x86 compensates many of its flaws.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: itix on August 06, 2011, 07:41:57 PM
@amigadave

I know that already... ;-) you can find my name from MorphOS credits and I even developed OS4Emu many many years ago so I know both systems inside out... :-P

(Oh, and I was talking about AROS/PPC in my previous post...)
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: nicholas on August 06, 2011, 11:22:31 PM
Quote from: itix;653411
If AROS/PPC was MorphOS compatible you would need only small 68k emulation layer to make it 68k compatible... but I still dont see point for AROS/PPC. AROS lacks on so many areas but x86 compensates many of its flaws.

Such as?
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 06, 2011, 11:30:04 PM
Quote from: amigadave;653398
All of the above has been available for a long time, so your posts are surprisingly uninformed.  Check out a OS4, or MorphOS forum some time and you will learn a lot more.
Yes, my post was uninformed, because I don't use and have no real interest in OS4 or MorphOS. But as itix wasn't discussing either, I'm not sure that's really all too relevant.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: amigadave on August 07, 2011, 03:07:36 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;653435
Yes, my post was uninformed, because I don't use and have no real interest in OS4 or MorphOS. But as itix wasn't discussing either, I'm not sure that's really all too relevant.

I admit I made a mistake regarding itix, but your reply;

Quote
Yeah, but it's still a separate emulator, right? Something like the  OS-integrated emulation on Power Macs would be nice for use with  OS-friendly apps.

To Duce and Dreamcast270mhz was not about AROS as they were both writing about OS4 and MorphOS, which is where I then replied to your post above and mistakenly included itix as well, as I thought the conversation was about OS4 and MorphOS at that point.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: sdyates on August 07, 2011, 03:50:36 AM
Has anyone written a review for the X1000 yet? I  would like to add it to my Amiga page on my Retro computing site. Though, I really should wait until the product gets to market :p
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: XDelusion on August 07, 2011, 03:55:34 AM
I just hope I can fit my penis in the drive bay.

They are always so narrow. :/
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: itix on August 07, 2011, 09:10:59 AM
Quote from: nicholas;653434
Such as?


Zune is missing lot of functionality.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 07, 2011, 10:11:29 AM
Ok, I've taken it out of the quote, and now line by line.
 
The AmigaOne X1000 is not like other computers.
 
True, it's not a pc, not a Mac like PPC and nothing like an Amiga.
 
It is the natural evolution of the Amiga's PowerPC lineage and is a culmination of efforts by real Amiga enthusiasts, developers and betatesters to create powerful, modern desktop hardware for the Amiga Operating System.
 
See, Amiga Operating System.
OS 4 has never been a target platform for Amiga's, yes it could run with a PPC card, but not on a basic 030/040/060!
 
So that's what is bold about it, putting a claim on a OS that isn't really for the Amiga, they are saying that OS 4 is also an evolution of Workbench and it's not!
It should be called Hyperion OS instead of Amiga OS and the X1000 is no Amiga either, and their you have it.
 
Quote from: AmigaNG;653402
Buzzfuzz (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=7603), just out of curiosity, why is this thread titled OS for the X1000, when it clearly nothing about that, it should of been titled "bold statement" or something. Just wondered.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: xeron on August 07, 2011, 12:56:14 PM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;653507

See, Amiga Operating System.
OS 4 has never been a target platform for Amiga's, yes it could run with a PPC card, but not on a basic 030/040/060!


So, Windows never ran on a 286 because Windows 95 required a 486?

Hint: OS4 is a continuation of the OS commodore shipped with the Amiga, based on the same source code base.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Buzzfuzz on August 07, 2011, 01:11:57 PM
That is because it checks the hardware, if it dind't do that it could run on it, would slow to a crawl, but can be done with enough memory, every Windows still starts in DOS, although it's not called DOS anymore.
 
Same with OS4, if I don't have the PPC in the Amiga 4000 or 1200, it's install will fail.
I can run 3.1 on an Amiga 500 with kickstart 3.1 and even run 3.1 on 2.04 kickstart, most things won't work, but it will start Workbench.
 
Quote from: xeron;653524
So, Windows never ran on a 286 because Windows 95 required a 486?
 
Hint: OS4 is a continuation of the OS commodore shipped with the Amiga, based on the same source code base.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 07, 2011, 01:44:22 PM
Quote from: Buzzfuzz;653527
That is because it checks the hardware, if it dind't do that it could run on it, would slow to a crawl, but can be done with enough memory, every Windows still starts in DOS, although it's not called DOS anymore.
No it wouldn't. Windows 95 runs in 386 protected mode, and could not possibly run on a 286.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: xeron on August 07, 2011, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;653532
No it wouldn't. Windows 95 runs in 386 protected mode, and could not possibly run on a 286.



^ this.

Your analogy fails because Windows 95 wouldn't run on a 286, because the 286 doesn't have protected mode.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Terminills on August 07, 2011, 04:18:40 PM
Quote from: xeron;653524
So, Windows never ran on a 286 because Windows 95 required a 486?

Hint: OS4 is a continuation of the OS commodore shipped with the Amiga, based on the same source code base.

Windows did run on a 286.   Windows 95 might not have but Windows 1 - 3.1 most certainly did.

Windows 1.03 on a 286.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMOwaodR5Mo

Windows 3.1 on 286

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Nd52DVGpo

Windows on an XT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItuymzxNUYM
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: dammy on August 07, 2011, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: xeron;653524
Hint: OS4 is a continuation of the OS commodore shipped with the Amiga, based on the same source code base.


Exactly which AOS source codes were used in OS4?  We all know the OS4 kernel is not based on Amiga IP.   I seem to remember court docs stating that Hyperion didn't use any of Amiga Inc's IP because it was assembly and was useless.  I'm interested to hear exactly what Amiga Inc IP was used in what portion of OS4.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: cgutjahr on August 07, 2011, 05:00:03 PM
Quote from: dammy;653545
Exactly which AOS source codes were used in OS4?

DOS, Intuition, Graphics, the GUI system(s), Workbench, Shell and pretty much all other core components, except Exec.

Quote

I'm interested to hear exactly what Amiga Inc IP was used in what portion of OS4.

I'm guessing, DOS was used in... (thinks very hard...) DOS maybe? I don't get that question.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: commodorejohn on August 07, 2011, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: Terminills;653544
Windows did run on a 286.   Windows 95 might not have but Windows 1 - 3.1 most certainly did. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItuymzxNUYM)
Well yeah, but that was kind of the whole point. Windows up to 3.1 was fundamentally a 16-bit OS (Win32 extensions for 3.1 notwithstanding,) and thus it was perfectly feasible for it to run on a 286 (though I don't recall if it ever made use of the 286's protected mode - not a lot did, aside from OS/2 and Xenix.) Windows 95 on the other hand was the first real step forward for the OS, using 386 protected mode to provide some actual process separation and memory protection (albeit not very well-handled) in a potentially greatly-expanded memory space.

xeron's point, if I'm not mistaken, was that OS4 is similarily a step forward from OS3.x and is not backwards-compatible for similar reasons. Not sure I agree 100%, but his analogy was sound; buzzfuzz's wasn't.
Title: Re: OS for the X1000
Post by: Iggy on August 07, 2011, 05:44:11 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;653548
Well yeah, but that was kind of the whole point. Windows up to 3.1 was fundamentally a 16-bit OS (Win32 extensions for 3.1 notwithstanding,) and thus it was perfectly feasible for it to run on a 286 (though I don't recall if it ever made use of the 286's protected mode - not a lot did, aside from OS/2 and Xenix.) Windows 95 on the other hand was the first real step forward for the OS, using 386 protected mode to provide some actual process separation and memory protection (albeit not very well-handled) in a potentially greatly-expanded memory space.
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No, I dealt in the retail market before and after Win3 was introduced. A 386SX was the minimum requirement. Tandy even released a 1000 with the 386SX processor just to address this demand.

Quote from: commodorejohn;653548
xeron's point, if I'm not mistaken, was that OS4 is similarily a step  forward from OS3.x and is not backwards-compatible for similar reasons.  Not sure I agree 100%, but his analogy was sound; buzzfuzz's  wasn't.

Not at all a good analogy. The 286 and 386 were part of the same processor line. A 68K and a PPC are completely unrelated. 386s can run earlier X86 code. PPCs do not run 68K code without re-interpretation.