A-EON Technology Acquires Personal Paint

[hishamk]

Awesome news. Good to finally see less talk and more action in the Amiga world.

[Niding]

He wrote that he asked but got harsh reactions. The people of a certain camp are obviously measuring different depending on where you are from. But that is not really new.

If you react to harsh reactions everytime you want to get things done, you will be paralyzed. Thats said; Pascal is very active and doing alot of good work. I think its better to focus on the good aspects of developments on the different platforms, instead of trying to villify the "others".
You say "camps", but from where Im sitting, every socalled "camp" got their "fundamentalists" that see no flaws in their design or arguments.

"AOS supporters" are no better or worse in that respect.

People have commented up thru the years about lack of software, hardware and developments/updates. I think it has been shown so far that hard cash has helped accelerate the developments on all those aspects. Ill grant you that the hardware platform is quite/very expensive, but for those that doesnt want to go that route, there is emulation or other platforms.

I see people say Personal Paint is old and worthless, but still they are up in arms about its removal. Everything has to be free it seems. No wonder developers left/are leaving.

@wawzon "there is no user base to sustain commercial developments. i wonder what you are expecting the users to do, if you get rid of this what you call psyche and start charge users for what has previously been available for free.."

Then you could flip it around; maybe there are no userbase because there have been no updates or developments for decades? Maybe the reason for this is the prevailent attitude that everything have to be free shunning away the developers? The "free lunch" approach has been attempted for decades and failed, so I dont see the big problem with letting AeonKit try their approach.
Looking at Aminet and OSdepot; there are so many programs freely available I dont really understand why people bounces off the walls for the removal of a few; with the intent to update and develop them.

[OlafS3]

If you react to harsh reactions everytime you want to get things done, you will be paralyzed. Thats said; Pascal is very active and doing alot of good work. I think its better to focus on the good aspects of developments on the different platforms, instead of trying to villify the "others".
You say "camps", but from where Im sitting, every socalled "camp" got their "fundamentalists" that see no flaws in their design or arguments.

"AOS supporters" are no better or worse in that respect.

People have commented up thru the years about lack of software, hardware and developments/updates. I think it has been shown so far that hard cash has helped accelerate the developments on all those aspects. Ill grant you that the hardware platform is quite/very expensive, but for those that doesnt want to go that route, there is emulation or other platforms.

I see people say Personal Paint is old and worthless, but still they are up in arms about its removal. Everything has to be free it seems. No wonder developers left/are leaving.

@wawzon "there is no user base to sustain commercial developments. i wonder what you are expecting the users to do, if you get rid of this what you call psyche and start charge users for what has previously been available for free.."

Then you could flip it around; maybe there are no userbase because there have been no updates or developments for decades? Maybe the reason for this is the prevailent attitude that everything have to be free shunning away the developers? The "free lunch" approach has been attempted for decades and failed, so I dont see the big problem with letting AeonKit try their approach.
Looking at Aminet and OSdepot; there are so many programs freely available I dont really understand why people bounces off the walls for the removal of a few; with the intent to update and develop them.

Again nobody seems to want to answer the simple question, just dancing around with lots of words

Why removing it? Three words and a very simple and understandable question. I have not heard any real explanation just excuses or people saying not a problem but no answer...

[Niding]

Just to copy what Severin said on AW.net

That is not a problem, it is the copyright owners choice. Name any other business that would not take down a 'free' product they own from a third party website to host it on their own site, still for free and generate more site hits? Most would take down the old version and lose it so people have to buy the latest version. A-EON is a business not a hobby, treat them as such.

EDIT;

And if it was Greeed that drove Trevor, then he would put his money elsewhere. I think its genuine intrest in the Amiga platform, be it Classic or xyz nextgen spinoff. Id say he would get a much better return on his money putting them in pretty much any other buissniss

I hope they succeed striking a good balance between money in and out. Money IS needed for future and ACCELERATED development, be it for NG and Classic hardware/software.

[amigadave]

I find it very good that the software is continued to be devleoped.

I find it very good that a guy like Andy is doing this

I also find it very good that he gets money for it.

I find it strange to old releases from Aminet are removed.

I don't know the reason(s) for removal from Aminet and feel exactly the same way as biggun just expressed his opinion.

Why can't more members express their views like biggun, without the FUD.  Some members here have to accuse A-Eon, or AmigaKit of lying about anything, or destroying the community, when both accusations are false.  They are also not trying to control anything, you vote with your wallet and choose to buy the products that A-Eon offers for sale, or you choose another path, but I see no reason for anyone to try to tear down and stop A-Eon from creating what ever they want for our community.  If it isn't what you want, make an alternative yourself and offer it to the community for sale, or for free, if you like.

Some members use any excuse to attack and spread false information about A-Eon and AmigaKit every time they disagree with anything they do or announce.  It is sad that they don't just promote their own vision of what should be done, or actually do something to show the community that their choices are the best, instead of constantly trying to tear down the actions of a few who are actively trying to do what they feel is good for the community.

Disagree as much as you like, but don't make false accusations, or spread lies about the intentions of people you don't know, just because you disagree with their actions or words.

[amigadave]

You are too often on amiga.org and amigaworld.net

On both sites most people with different views have left and only certain people are left. I do not say the announcement that it will be available for free is wrong but I say they are at least not honest. They are always talking about the "community", that they just bought forum sites for the community only altruistic and at the same time clearly using their money for economic interests. They should at least admit that and not only marketing blabla. If you read the reactions outside the tiny AmigaOS world (f.e. german sites) the reactions are very different. Both Cloanto and Aeonkit have not done them any favor by it. They seem to have lost understanding of the community.

So now you are going to tell me how often I can express my own opinions here and at AmigaWorld.net?

If I go back the past 2 or 3 years, I would bet that you offer your opinions on either site more often than myself, but if you will look at most of my posts recently, you will see that I have defended member's rights to express their opinions, as long as they do it in a civil manner and do not break the rules of either site.

Moderators here are Amiga users too, and we also have our own opinions.  Just because we help out by moderating, does not mean we have to give up our right to express our own opinions.  Members with extreme attachments to their own view points who cannot get along with other people who have differing opinions, without attacking them, have either left, or have been asked to change the way they express their opinions, to stay within the posting rules.  If you are trying to imply that members have left either site because they don't like my opinions, or because I post too often, I think you are exaggerating my influence on those members.

Isn't it funny that some of the members who complain that AmigaKit and A-Eon have bought these sites to try to control the opinions and content that is posted in the forums, are the same users who often only want one side of an argument to be heard, and when anyone disagrees with their point of view, they attempt to scare or force them away.

[bloodline]

I'd probably buy an AROS port, providing there was a time limted, save disabled demo for me to try out first :-)

[Wilse]

Nice to see this being taken on.

Some of the whingeing on this thread is as predictable as it is depressing.

[broadblues]

Layers

Not sure how layers would work in an 8bit gfx program, layers based programs such as ahen , SketchBlock, reply on alpha blending and other advanced pixel manipulations like multiply add subtract that do not translate well.

Do you have an example of a 8bit program using layers so I can see how it works in relation to them?

 I know ImageFX has alayers facility, but that as well only works for RGB buffers, with a 'frames' version for colourmapped, which is not the same as it's for animation not blending, and as such is covered by PPaint superior animation features.

[Matt_H]

I find it very good that the software is continued to be devleoped.

I find it very good that a guy like Andy is doing this

I also find it very good that he gets money for it.

I find it strange to old releases from Aminet are removed.

Bingo. This summarizes my sentiments exactly.

While not fitting the legal definition, PPaint 7.1 has effectively been considered PD for almost two decades.  To pull something that old from the community archives - even if it's made available elsewhere - is troubling. Are any other Aminet staples at risk of the same fate in the future?

[Djole]

I really dont see a problem in removing the free version of PPaint from aminet and hosting it on their own site. People can directly compare the free version with the up to date one and decide if its worth buying or not.

Its a good thing someone is picking this project up and developing further. I really hope they can make some money from it and invest it in other projects or just buy some candy for their kids.

The free version is still available and even if it was not, it wouldnt be a disaster, it was free for years, users who wanted it already have it.

[Niding]

Bingo. This summarizes my sentiments exactly.

While not fitting the legal definition, PPaint 7.1 has effectively been considered PD for almost two decades.  To pull something that old from the community archives - even if it's made available elsewhere - is troubling. Are any other Aminet staples at risk of the same fate in the future?

Just hypotetically; if a few other programs are taken out of Aminet to be updated; whats the problem with that?

If something have been derelict for decades the socalled "community" have either;

1) Already got it on floppies/harddrives
2) Never had any use for it in the first place since they didnt download it x years ago

If the only "cost" is the removal of a "dead" program to get a updated program with future developments on the horizon; im all for it.

[IanP]

@AmigaDave my earlier post was intended to be neutral.

I can see valid reasons for removing the free version of Personal Paint from Aminet. They have invested in developing a new version (with similar version number i.e. a point release update) and want people to consider purchasing that new version, it makes sense to bring traffic to their own website for people wanting a copy of Personal Paint. It makes it clear that it is now actively developed so the new and any future versions are no longer to be freely distributed but instead should be purchased.

[pVC]

I really dont see a problem in removing the free version of PPaint from aminet and hosting it on their own site. People can directly compare the free version with the up to date one and decide if its worth buying or not.

Yeah, it wouldn't be that big problem if it'd go that way. And maybe also a readme to Aminet explaining where you can get it. I'd be OK for me.

BUT, currently it seems that it won't be available that easily. It hasn't been said it'll be on their web site, it's been said to be on their "servers", which currently looks like that it means it'll be available only through their Amistore software.

It gives a lot of trouble, for example:
1) Amistore application is currently only available for OS4. 68k version is coming some day, but currently you need OS4 to get the software.
2) You need network connection and beefy enough Amiga to run Amistore. You can't get the software directly with Windows, Linux or Mac (to transfer it with other means to Amiga) unless running it on emulation and that might be a bit too big hassle for many users just wanting the old free PPaint to their old Amiga.
3) You probably need to register and take other actions before getting the software you used to have easily on Aminet. Old version's readme could have been updated to direct interested people to new commercial versions.

The free version is still available and even if it was not, it wouldnt be a disaster, it was free for years, users who wanted it already have it.

I can't believe we wouldn't have any new users or old users coming back ever anymore. And nobody would want to reinstall their system? Not everyone is keeping backups of their installation archives which are expected to be freely available anyway. For example many demosceners try different platforms etc and for them PPaint would be a great help, but I'm afraid they won't always look further than Aminet, but their productivity would do good for the Amiga.

[Niding]

Yeah, it wouldn't be that big problem if it'd go that way. And maybe also a readme to Aminet explaining where you can get it. I'd be OK for me.

BUT, currently it seems that it won't be available that easily. It hasn't been said it'll be on their web site, it's been said to be on their "servers", which currently looks like that it means it'll be available only through their Amistore software.

It gives a lot of trouble, for example:
1) Amistore application is currently only available for OS4. 68k version is coming some day, but currently you need OS4 to get the software.
2) You need network connection and beefy enough Amiga to run Amistore. You can't get the software directly with Windows, Linux or Mac (to transfer it with other means to Amiga) unless running it on emulation and that might be a bit too big hassle for many users just wanting the old free PPaint to their old Amiga.
3) You probably need to register and take other actions before getting the software you used to have easily on Aminet.

Thats indeed a concern. When I asked about the AmigaStore running on Classical hardware, Matthew mentioned it was on a virtual crawl even on his 060 accelerated machine. He did mention that he was thinking/planning a more suitable version, tho I think most of us got 030s?

That said; that can be circumvated by using emulators, running AmigaStore from a PC/UAE...?

[buzz]

Looks like they have emailed everyone who hosted the files. I have an aminet mirror - and they of course emailed me to remove them.. doh.

I suggest everyone uploads lots of copies to their favourite hosting sites to avoid losing this software that has been freely available for years.

really stupid move.