Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Desktop Audio and Video => Topic started by: Motormouth on October 05, 2014, 11:36:56 PM
-
Does anyone out there still use their toaster and/or flyer for production work? Or anything else for that matter...... Especially since NTSC is for all practical purposes dead.
I guess I am more or less curious....
-
I got a box full of genlocks and other video gear in a recent parts haul I found. Thought it might be cool to make some "retro" videos for my roller derby team. But considering the amount of time it would take to learn all this stuff (never had it back in the day) I doubt it will ever happen. :(
-
I got a box full of genlocks and other video gear in a recent parts haul I found. Thought it might be cool to make some "retro" videos for my roller derby team. But considering the amount of time it would take to learn all this stuff (never had it back in the day) I doubt it will ever happen. :(
That is one of the best features of the Video Toaster/Flyer, it is very easy to learn to use and intuitive. Doing some things takes a bit of studying & practice (like using LightWave3D to make moving 3D logos), but for the most part, the Toaster/Flyer is very easy to use, once it is fully set up and working.
As for the question on if anyone is still using their Video Toaster/Flyer for production work, I have a very good friend who directs and produces a couple of local cable TV shows. Until just a couple of years ago, he used his Video Toaster/Flyer to create 90% of his production work. Now, he uses a Windows based, software only, video editing system, to do HD content, plus the last service person within a 100 mile radius of where he lives quit working on Amigas and Video Toaster/Flyer systems, so he had to switch to something that was still supported, in case his system went down as he had to have something that could be worked on and fixed in a day or two, or he would miss a deadline and lose his client(s). I think he still uses the Toaster/Flyer for a tiny fraction of his work, when HD content is not required, or when he can insert SD content composite on a part of an HD screen. The days of using NewTek's Video Toaster/Flyer running in an Amiga are basically over now, but what an incredible run that product family had over the last 20+ years.
I'll keep using mine for personal use for years to come.
-
That is one of the best features of the Video Toaster/Flyer, it is very easy to learn to use and intuitive. Doing some things takes a bit of studying & practice (like using LightWave3D to make moving 3D logos), but for the most part, the Toaster/Flyer is very easy to use, once it is fully set up and working.
As for the question on if anyone is still using their Video Toaster/Flyer for production work, I have a very good friend who directs and produces a couple of local cable TV shows. Until just a couple of years ago, he used his Video Toaster/Flyer to create 90% of his production work. Now, he uses a Windows based, software only, video editing system, to do HD content, plus the last service person within a 100 mile radius of where he lives quit working on Amigas and Video Toaster/Flyer systems, so he had to switch to something that was still supported, in case his system went down as he had to have something that could be worked on and fixed in a day or two, or he would miss a deadline and lose his client(s). I think he still uses the Toaster/Flyer for a tiny fraction of his work, when HD content is not required, or when he can insert SD content composite on a part of an HD screen. The days of using NewTek's Video Toaster/Flyer running in an Amiga are basically over now, but what an incredible run that product family had over the last 20+ years.
I'll keep using mine for personal use for years to come.
Any examples of the stuff you've mentioned, perhaps on Youtube? I've always been curious to see the finalized output of a toaster/flyer setup. I'd also really be curious to see what it can do that is kind of unique.
-
Two uses: paper weight and doorstop.
-
Two uses: paper weight and doorstop.
Hmm.. not very nice.
Rich
-
Two uses: paper weight and doorstop.
Unfortunately that is all I could come up with myself.
-
Unfortunately that is all I could come up with myself.
It goes beyond the fact of being an SD only device. It's analog and analog video production is dead.
Everyone is walking around with HD cameras on their phones featuring, essentially, drag-n-drop file-level access to the content. This stuff is editable on even a cheap laptop anymore, using free or next to free software if you must. Apart from some hipster-esque satisfaction in doing something with one of these setups you're really better off saving yourself the effort and diminished quality, if you need to actually do something that's not just for purely your own purposes.
More than once I've seen local network affiliates doing a story in the field that's obviously standard-definition video blown up but these are most likely digital of some kind. It still begs the question "why?", given a first generation iPhone shoots better video but, who knows, perhaps they're still paying for some of those ENG cameras.
-
Does anyone out there still use their toaster and/or flyer for production work? Or anything else for that matter...... Especially since NTSC is for all practical purposes dead.
I guess I am more or less curious....
If you have the stuff, some uses could be:
DVR for security cams.
Real time video digitizer.
Video switcher for multiple inputs(c64,console etc?)
Web cam(software on aminet for toaster as digitizer).
It also works with VHI studio if memory serves.
Nothing that can't be done on modern things,but hey,fun to mess with.:)
-
Agreed, there's nothing about the Amiga Video Toaster Flyer that's useful or appropriate in a commercial sense in this high-def digital world. That said, I have assembled a setup of 1990s NewTek and Commodore goodness and what magic this stuff was in its day! I'm having fun using it for some personal work. Eventually I will probably share something via YouTube, but I don't have anything ready for that just yet.
Somebody send me a Kitchen Sync, as that's the bit I'm after now. :)
-
..
Somebody send me a Kitchen Sync, as that's the bit I'm after now. :)
:laugh1:
I fully agree the best 'current' use for a video toaster is messing around and having fun with it as today everything is 1080 hi def video
-
:laugh1:
I fully agree the best 'current' use for a video toaster is messing around and having fun with it as today everything is 1080 hi def video
My toaster can output to a1080 monitor!
-
Two uses: paper weight and doorstop.
You forgot Boat Anchor. :)
You can do the Roller Derby retro vid on Nero Video for modern device consummation in a quarter the time, and you only need one video device.
-
Two uses: paper weight and doorstop.
Most people would say this same exact thing about the Amiga computer itself. Something doesn't seem quite right with vintage computer enthusiasts declaring a particular piece of vintage hardware to be worthy only of holding open a door because it has no present commercial viability.
-
Very little practical use or cash value in the setup these days, but a lot of fun to noodle around with and learn the basics of video work on. Toaster setup is still a lot of fun to fiddle around with if SD stuff is acceptable for you.
-
Retro Coolness
-
Retro Coolness
main reason we're here eh:lol::cool:
-
:)
-
The Video Toaster was outstanding gear back in the days of analog video. Today is just a doorstop or museum piece at best.
The Flyer was never good enough for professional work. It had a custom video format (VTASC) that compressed video in a non standard manner. Under high compression, it did not made the signal pixelated like we are used to, but instead generated video noise. It was always an expensive and clumsy setup involving too many drives and cables. There were much better professional and semiprofessional Amiga based NLE solutions back then (BroadCaster Elite and VlabMotion/DraCo which could do both PAL & NTSC). Anyway, the Flyer sales were always riding on the back of Video Toaster studios wanting to upgrade their setups to digital video.
Today, I would say that beyond collecting them, there is little use. Maybe the Video Toaster could find some use as a teleprompter, but then it was so crippled by design: it is NTSC only and requires its inputs to be passed thru a TBC. You are better of with a simple genlock for this.
-
The Video Toaster was outstanding gear back in the days of analog video. Today is just a doorstop or museum piece at best.
The Flyer was never good enough for professional work. It had a custom video format (VTASC) that compressed video in a non standard manner. Under high compression, it did not made the signal pixelated like we are used to, but instead generated video noise. It was always an expensive and clumsy setup involving too many drives and cables. There were much better professional and semiprofessional Amiga based NLE solutions back then (BroadCaster Elite and VlabMotion/DraCo which could do both PAL & NTSC). Anyway, the Flyer sales were always riding on the back of Video Toaster studios wanting to upgrade their setups to digital video.
Today, I would say that beyond collecting them, there is little use. Maybe the Video Toaster could find some use as a teleprompter, but then it was so crippled by design: it is NTSC only and requires its inputs to be passed thru a TBC. You are better of with a simple genlock for this.
I think he dost protest too much...
This was the same "complaints" we heard back in the day.
There are several ways and places to use ntsc and toaster/flyer stuff.
The most common is in small site training tapes and systems that have lots of older vcr's and no cash to upgrade to HD.
Besides, any video from any source can be added to the web and inserted into other video projects.
Not to mention special interest one offs. (yes like wedding with very small budgets)
I know of several folks that made lots. Just were too busy to report to amiga types.
They preferred to work. Still do!
-
In a world where people can take HD and 4k video on their cell phones and import it directly into a PC via SD card for processing, I don't see a lot of people going through the effort of noodling around with an Amiga from 20 years ago, combined with a low rent camcorder for wedding videos or training videos.
The "no money to upgrade to HD" is a bit of a cop out in a world where pretty much everything is HD. Any $150 TV off the shelf of a BestBuy is HD. HD's been around in a public capacity since 1998, after all.
-
In a world where people can take HD and 4k video on their cell phones and import it directly into a PC via SD card for processing, I don't see a lot of people going through the effort of noodling around with an Amiga from 20 years ago, combined with a low rent camcorder for wedding videos or training videos.
The "no money to upgrade to HD" is a bit of a cop out in a world where pretty much everything is HD. Any $150 TV off the shelf of a BestBuy is HD. HD's been around in a public capacity since 1998, after all.
@ duce
There are and always have been those with less...
The "amiga made it possible" to do good things.
BTW, in my experience...broadcast was and could be anything that was wanted by those who paid for it. i.e. I have even added 8mm video into paid for projects.
Think not about the lasted and greatest, but the project!!!
Ever seen Ken Burns still images (from the civil war) inserted in PBS broadcast shows?
How about old timey pictures in sfi-fi movies. How about Andy Warhold "Live" slides from the first roll out of the amiga (boy that cost/made lots of cash)
-
I got a box full of genlocks and other video gear in a recent parts haul I found. Thought it might be cool to make some "retro" videos for my roller derby team. But considering the amount of time it would take to learn all this stuff (never had it back in the day) I doubt it will ever happen. :(
Actually, I like having a couple hi quality genlocks around. In a pinch they give a nice composite (or S-Video) output that works on most modern TVs. Not as good as RGB but much better that using a crappy A520.
-
The Video Toaster/Flyer is a cool retro video editing system. It's one of the best the Amiga had but is NTSC only so Europeans didn't get to experance the fun. It also has a 4 input hardware switcher which is something software only editing soluutions don't have.
For those that experanced it, it was ahead of its time and easy to learn and use. If you set one up today you can just use solid state drives so no more hard drive madness. In the modern HD world that's quickly moving to 4K it would not be your daily editing system. Out of respect I would never call it a door stop. It's a great tool for what it does and the era it comes from. The software/hardware has not been updated in almost 20 years.
You can always buy a modern version of the Video Toaster, it's called a TriCaster and has none of the limitations people complained about in this thread about the original.
-
Is the Toaster/Flyer dead? well in the usefulness of production work yes but it still is alot of fun to mess around with. My system that I bought in 1992 is still working today. Sure Ive had issues but all have been fixable and I still play around with it from time to time. I even have a big green screen that Ive used when my kids want something fun to do on a cold winter day.
Newtek up until recently even offered free repairs on the Toaster and Flyer boards. What company has that good a warranty these days?
I used my system primarily for Wedding production and some promotional videos for small business here. The output quality was as good as NTSC could get if your source was up to par (garbage in, garbage out) 525 lines of resolution was its max. I still have my Digital-S deck with a few tapes with stuff on them that I worked on.
-
@tonyvdb
Awesome to hear, thanx for sharing.
-
The Video Toaster may not be of much use for editing...
But as a video effects mixer for live performance (i.e. in a dance club, video art project or as a video mixer for projection of live images behind a band, etc.) it could be very cool - and something Sony Vegas and an iPhone couldn't match.
For art projects video resolution and 16:9 doesn't matter. In fact some people are intentionally using old VHS camcorders, etc. for an interesting look (much like some are still using super-8 film).
I'm pretty sure someone was live-streaming the feed from a real Amiga video toaster during the Amiga 30th celebration in California this past weekend. It sure looked like that anyway - it still looked good and was extremely appropriate for the event.
-
ral-clan.... yes, I was operating Bill Borsari's Video Toaster at the event in Mountain View. Did seem fitting, though I am sorry we got the stream going a bit late Saturday morning. Had a few technical difficulties and not enough setup time, but things got ironed out as we got into it.