Aos 3 -> aos 4

[HotRod]

You are forgetting something ,an amiga one is much more powerful than a cyberstorm ppc amiga running classic os 4.x.imagine that your amigaone was only 233 MHz and could only utilize -until recently- only 256 ram .it would hardly be a nice setup let alone running CPU and ram hungry applications.From what I understand the latest 4.1 on classics is much faster in eye candy stuff and GfX appearing than the previous but you have to have the most expensive amiga peripherals to have a machine that is only capable of achieving part of amiga one performance.THat's the reason most people prefer 68k based os and amiga os 3.9 at least amiga os was based on motorola and with some datatypes or warp os or phase 5 solution you.can have something good. I think amiga os 4.1.2 should have appeared back in 1997 things would be better.

I can understand that but on the other hand it might be time to buy something new. Those machines are from -92-94 (and later ones from Escom). My a4k are from -93. The question is if you would like 4 colour icons for the rest of your life and 8 colour wallpapers? These things require more RAM. When I first got a graphicscard for my a4k I had 8MB RAM which was overkill but as soon as I installed the gfxcard and cybergraphis I took allmost all of that away! I didn't understand why back then and I still don't since the graphicscard got its own RAM but hey... that was a price I had to pay if I didn't want to be stuck with AGA for the rest of my life.

I don't know how much you can strip down AOS 4 to make it use as little RAM as possible but it's made to be run in high resolutions with nice icons and wallpapers. You can still drop the theme and make it look like AOS 3.x, remove the wallpaper, replace the icons and don't use a 32-bit mousepointer but isn't the thing about moving forward?

[drHirudo]

I stepped into the AmigaOS 4 realm back in January 2005 and never regret it. I used extensively my Amiga 4000 before, but after I got my microAmigaOne I did not switch the A4000 for months and eventually sold it for a bargain price. The fact that the A4000 hard drive worked straight away with all the partitions on AmigaOS 4 helped a lot. I did not have any trouble with the migration. I started to use all the old apps without any trouble. I played all the emulators that were too slow for 68K Amigas - Sam Coupe, MAME, AtariST, GameBoy Advanced.

I used Amiga since 1993 and the AmigaOS 4 was the biggest upgrade I ever saw on the Amigas after the 1.3->2.0 update. At the beginning AmigaOS 4 was still in beta but it was much better than my AmigaOS 3.9 BB2 install in everything. TCP stack without any trouble, transparent startup of 68000 applications and true colors graphics. Okay, you can have true color in classic Amgias, but you need accelerator board, graphic board, network board for ethernet, melody card for good sound etc. Since I was not interested in creating Amiga Frankestein machine that would cost me more than the MicroAmiga, I am more happy with my current Amiga config that works flawlessly for more than 6 years now.

[Franko]

I haven't used OS 4.0 Classic so I wouldn't know but from what I've read lots of people was dissapointed and that's a shame, really. Hmm... What about giving it another try then? Like I said I'm happy with it on my amigaone and people seems to be enjoying it on their SAMs.

AppleHammer just recently pointed out to me that even the latest version of OS4.x would be of no use to me without a GFX card to go with my BPPC...

To be honest after my experience with OS4.0 and being abandoned by Hyperion after just one "upgrade" then even if I ever do get hold of BVision board OS4.x is not for me anymore I'm afraid...

My 060's and OS3.1 & OS3.5 can do everything I require from an Amiga and the PPC comes in handy for PPC versions of programs like Lame & Frodo without the need to install what I consider a rather bloated OS like OS4.x ...

As I'll never buy anything like a SAM then OS4 will never really be something I'd consider buying again...

[Gulliver]

In my case, OS4 isnt able to do what my Classic 68k 3.9 does. For example:

I watch TV on my workbench (with OS4 I cant)
I use USB 2.0 (with OS4 I cant)
68k compatibility on 3.9 is great (whdload, demos, etc), much better than in an emulated enviroment, as everything works the way it is supposed to with no glitches.

And I dont think there is a single appealing app for PPC that is not a port of a Linux/Windows thing (better use that thing on faster x86).

Dont get me wrong, I had an AmigaOne with OS4 ages ago, and I dont regret selling it for an instant!

[SamuraiCrow]

@HotRod

2 words:  Developer tools.  If you develop for something other than C/C++ you're kind of stuck if you ever try to move up to PPC.  I tried to make an AmosPro equivalent for OS 4 and MOS but it proved to be too difficult.  It's easier to develop a new computer out of an FPGA to run OS 3 and AmosPro than it is to make a new AmosPro to run on OS 4.

Have you ever tried to convert a Copper list from classic Amiga to a system that doesn't have a Copper?  It requires fragment shaders and as of version 4.1.x shaders are still not supported by AmigaOS 4.  Maybe after the Gallium drivers get written for OS 4 there will be shader support and a Copper equivalent that can be used to run old software.

[Daedalus]

So I bought a Sam and in my opinion it was a major step back compared to the a fully tweaked 3.9 setup.

"Fully tweaked" is the key thing here... How does OS4 compare to a plain OS3.9 install? And don't forget OS4.1 has addressed many of the issues users found with 4.0. If you don't have the hardware to run 4.x, then 3.9 is fine, great even, but since I got my A1 many years ago I can honestly say my pimped out A1200 tower gets turned on less than once a month. I use a wedge A1200 with an 030 for my classic gaming needs, and OS4.1 runs everything else. AROS will be a good alternative some day but it's not quite there yet. And I'll probably give MOS a go if/when it supports my G5 tower or my G4 iBook.

[haywirepc]

I will likely never purchase aos4 or an aos4 machine.

The cost is ridiculous for 10+ year old hardware specs.

AROS is worlds ahead in my opinion...

Steven
The hardware is ahead, the OS is behind and far behind too.
 
I don't think so. I've tried out a friends os4 system and ware really dissapointed. I expected it to be more feature rich than AROS but the truth is, it really isn't.
 
I expected it might be faster, but the truth is, AOS4 on a 1ghz system is certainly less snappy than Aros on a 2ghz pc. Aros on a 3ghz system smokes it. No comparison at all.
 
Icaros also comes preconfigured with tons of utilities, games, apps and so on. AOS4 comes with nothing, and your likely to spend a few weeks getting it up to the functionality of a freshly installed icaros system.
 
To each his own. I choose AROS.
 
:laughing:

[Heiroglyph]

Very simple reason I don't try AOS4, I can't justify the cost of the PPC hardware.

IMHO, if they don't switch platforms there is zero future in it.

Amithlon was the one decent idea in the Amiga market in the last 15 years and they mismanaged/litigated that one to death.

[haywirepc]

I agree ppc hardware is too crazy expensive for a dead platform.
Yes Amithlon was a fantastic thing. Its really too bad they killed it. Amiga curse in full effect...

[commodorejohn]

Basically this: if I want something that will run on my A3000/040, OS4 isn't it. If I want an Amiga-like operating system that will run on PPC hardware that can be had cheaper than an Amiga PPC accelerator, OS4 isn't that, either. To run it, I'd need either a PPC accelerator (one of the most ridiculously expensive things you can buy for your Amiga,) or an OS4-supported custom PPC board (one of the other most ridiculously expensive things you can buy for your Amiga.)

And even if I already had those, there are a nice variety of OS options that don't involve shelling out a couple hundred bucks to one of the assorted shysters currently exploiting the Amiga name.

[HammerD]

In my case, OS4 isnt able to do what my Classic 68k 3.9 does. For example:

I use USB 2.0 (with OS4 I cant)

If your Classic Amiga has Zorro III you can get USB 2.0 with the Deneb card.  It works with the Poseidon USB stack under AmigaOS 4.0 or 4.1 Classic.

But obviously due to the limitations of Zorro III (and even worse Zorro II) you won't get anywhere near the 480Mbps of USB2 high speed.

[rdolores]

I can't justify moving to AOS4.x for 2 reasons.  First, the PPC platform doesn't have much of a future.  Even Apple dropped it.  Second, hardware is, hard to get, and if you can get it, is quite expensive.  The reason I got into the Amiga back in 1986 was because of its bang for the buck vs Macs and PC Clones.

What I like about AROS, is that it is more responsive on the same machine compared to Windows XP, Vista or 7.  I have my AROS installed on a Dell GX280 3.2 GHz CPU, 2 GB RAM, 80 GB HD, AC97 Audio, NVidia GS8400 PCI-e Video, 3Com Ethernet card, which I picked up for nothing and it flies.  It even does Screen scrolling like the old Amigas.

It's not complete yet.  I'd still like better printing capability.  But it is progressing very rapidly now.  And there are two good distributions, Icaros Desktop and AROS Broadway.  Also, it is being ported to 68K platforms, so not only will it work on upcoming NATAMI, Clone-A, etc..., but even on old classic hardware.

[Gulliver]

If your Classic Amiga has Zorro III you can get USB 2.0 with the Deneb card.  It works with the Poseidon USB stack under AmigaOS 4.0 or 4.1 Classic.

But obviously due to the limitations of Zorro III (and even worse Zorro II) you won't get anywhere near the 480Mbps of USB2 high speed.

Interesting...  but anyway, I would still loose my TV watching ability on workbench.

In the end it seems much more reasonable to me to keep using 3.9 and its many tweaks, and then use aros from time to time on my affordable x86 as my next gen Amigaish OS.

[Crumb]

If your Classic Amiga has Zorro III you can get USB 2.0 with the Deneb card.  It works with the Poseidon USB stack under AmigaOS 4.0 or 4.1 Classic.

But obviously due to the limitations of Zorro III (and even worse Zorro II) you won't get anywhere near the 480Mbps of USB2 high speed.

And Deneb won't do DMA on OS4 due to OS4 incompatibility/limitations dealing with perfectly fine DMA OS3 drivers.  BlizzardPPC/A4000T scsi situation is worse because it won't work at all.

[Crumb]

The hardware is ahead, the OS is behind and far behind too.

At least AROS has a proper USB2.0 stack and better driver support (2D/3D gfx cards, better WiFi support)

[drHirudo]

I forgot to say that I when I switched to AmigaOS 4 and even today I use Amiga as main machine i.e. it can be considered modern use of computer. Back in 2004 the use of Internet on Amiga 4000 with AGA was terrible. I was browsing without graphics, because the graphics were seen only dithered to 32 color. Switching to 64 colors Workbench rendered the machine useless and lowered the Internet bandwidth speed. I never listened to MP3s, because the decoding took too many resources.

The people who said they are okay with AmigaOS 3 and have no interest in AmigaOS 4 are using their machines for gaming and retro tinkering, not for modern tasks. AmigaOS 3 is just fine for their needs, since they have a laptop PC or Mac Desktop machine nearby to check their g-mail accounts, Facebook and YouTube.

But if use your Amiga for some professional task or want to use it for what is considered modern computing - e-mail, YouTube, Videos, MP3, emulation, c++ coding etc, AmigaOS 4 is a need, not luxury.

While I can not watch TV on my AmigaOne, I happily watch shows that I want to watch on my Amiga with Cyrillic subtitles. While I can not play with Sega D-Pad, I can play with USB joystick with 10 buttons and analog paddles on my AmigaOne. While I can not listen to native Paula sounds, I enjoy full quality Tunenet songs in wide variety of formats, that were very hard to replay on A4000. All this thanks to AmigaOS 4.