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Author Topic: The need for "Modern PCs"  (Read 5905 times)

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Offline IggyTopic starter

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 11:52:49 AM »
I find so little difference between the two that the argument seems pointless.
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Offline Tripitaka

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2012, 11:54:30 AM »
Quote from: rvo_nl;715855

Personally I also cant understand why people think desktop computers are going to disappear. Sure, for some 'light' users I understand the move to a tablet or notebook. But people that need to do productivity stuff, the occasional game or in general do more than just a Facebook update now and then are much better off with a proper keyboard, mouse, and big / dual screen.


You answered your own question buddy. The "But people that need to do..." bit says it all. Most people are light users and just don't need to do more than an FB update or collect email. They play games on console/ pad/ phone and they communicate via phone/ pad/ console too....
..yup, love it or hate it, you can't deny it.

As for me, my phone is a Sony 610i, it's ancient. It plays MP3's fine with it's 2GB card and does SMS etc..
That's about all I need from a phone to be honest.

My netbook gets used for a bit of video playback on the move as well as some word proccessing.

Games...  ..I play them on console at home (Wii, PS3, CD32 etc.) ...and yes, on PC too.

I don't own a pad yet but I would very much like one. One with a good digital paint app and a long battery life as it would be for digital art and ebooks mostly.

As for the question of doing without my main PC, no chance! It does seem to be shrinking into a quieter more solid state beastie as time goes on however. I remember the times when I needed huge cases for all my drives and cards. Now I think of NAS and USB instead.

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Offline Ral-Clan

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2012, 01:13:45 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;715798
In your daily life, what things do you do, that you could do with the aid of a so called "modern PC", that you do with something else?

A legacy system, NG system, your cell phone etc.

I think right now, people who only consume content (i.e. play games, watch video, listen to music, talk/converse with others) can totally fulfill their needs with an iPad, smart phone, gaming sytem or other non-desktop PC device.

For those who need to create content (i.e. do video editing, programming, electronics interfacing, AUTOCAD design, multitrack music, 3d rendering, graphics work) the desktop PC is still very relevant.  This is because the desktop PC still offers the most CPU power for the buck and also is highly configurable (i.e. with a musician you might need to have several pro-level sound cards installed for multiple-ins and outs plus a MIDI interface).

This will probably change as things like iPads become closer and closer to being just as powerful to desktop computers.
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Offline CritAnime

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 02:47:41 PM »
I have a mixed bag when it comes to the whole "modern pc" thing. I have Windows for playing games on and Mint for doing all my day to day work orientated stuff. I then carry an iPad for playing random crap on when I am on my break or want to brows somethign on the internet.

However I do use my 600 on a daily basis for playing games on. I am also learning AMOS and doing stuff with Backbone.

Offline paolone

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 02:57:38 PM »
I will answer very quickly: people who buy a tablet already have a PC. Stop dot.

Those devices are complementary but, in the fields where they are interchangeable, tablets allow to do the same while moving.

That's exactly why the netbook market has died: people who bought a netbook, already had a PC. And that's why the notebooks are struggling too, reinventing themselves as lighter, more powerful and cool ultrabooks: people who bought a notebook because they already had a PC, moved to tablets, but people who still need a laptop because they can't do without, now buy a cheap $499 one or a more glamorous ultrabook.

PCs will never really die: there will always be the need for them, after all.
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Offline dammy

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 05:27:51 PM »
Quote from: paolone;715874
I will answer very quickly: people who buy a tablet already have a PC. Stop dot.

Those devices are complementary but, in the fields where they are interchangeable, tablets allow to do the same while moving.

That's exactly why the netbook market has died: people who bought a netbook, already had a PC. And that's why the notebooks are struggling too, reinventing themselves as lighter, more powerful and cool ultrabooks: people who bought a notebook because they already had a PC, moved to tablets, but people who still need a laptop because they can't do without, now buy a cheap $499 one or a more glamorous ultrabook.

PCs will never really die: there will always be the need for them, after all.


There are two groups of people that will insure desktops will remain viable market segment, gamers and business.  Business like desktops because management doesn't get a late evening call from employees stating they left their desktop in a bar or someone one a bus stole their desktop or they left their desktop in a cab.  Gamers will have desktops because there is just so much you can squeeze out of console systems vs the latest and greatest GPUs demanding games that have associated bragging rights on how many FPS they are getting out of their beast system.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 05:31:29 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;715863
You answered your own question buddy. The "But people that need to do..." bit says it all. Most people are light users and just don't need to do more than an FB update or collect email. They play games on console/ pad/ phone and they communicate via phone/ pad/ console too....
..yup, love it or hate it, you can't deny it.
What's sad about it is that in the glory days of personal computing, instead of computers dropping capability to fit with lowest-common-denominator use patterns, as tablets do, you had people who would ordinarily have been "light users" branching out into new areas that they might otherwise never have tried, because hey, the capability was there. Now everybody just settles for mediocre...
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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 05:35:46 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;715884
What's sad about it is that in the glory days of personal computing, instead of computers dropping capability to fit with lowest-common-denominator use patterns, as tablets do, you had people who would ordinarily have been "light users" branching out into new areas that they might otherwise never have tried, because hey, the capability was there. Now everybody just settles for mediocre...

In general, that feature probably limited access.  Most people just want computer functionality without any computer-y issues (think your hatred of configuring linux) these days.  Press button - get Facebook, or Charlie the Unicorn.  But that sort of mediocre approach has opened the floodgates to people who would have never touched a computing device otherwise.  The tablet is truly the "computer for the masses".
 

Offline persia

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2012, 05:48:01 PM »
Look at it this way, back in the '80s only a small section of the population had desktops, those that had them needed them.  The the revolution came and desktops became ubiquitous, but the vast majority of people didn't really need a computer, so as the tablet revolution came those people began switching to tablets and the desktop is returning to just those that need a desktop.

Personally I have all three formats (a Mac Pro desktop, an iPhone 5 and a bunch of tablets, including an iPad Mini).
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Offline Thorham

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2012, 06:17:08 PM »
Quote from: dammy;715883
There are two groups of people that will insure desktops will remain viable market segment, gamers and business.

And what about the hobbyist? I for one want a desktop, and certainly not a tablet.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2012, 06:42:39 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;715885
In general, that feature probably limited access.  Most people just want computer functionality without any computer-y issues (think your hatred of configuring linux) these days.  Press button - get Facebook, or Charlie the Unicorn.
That's a load of crap. People didn't "just want" those things, because they didn't even exist until a few years ago. They wanted to avoid technical nitty-gritty, sure, but the Mac let them do that - but now Apple's the one leading the push towards the new "bovine content consumption" paradigm. Back in the day, even ordinary users were exploring the creative potential of the PC - then somewhere along the way some people started telling them that what they really wanted was to do nothing but consume content on company-controlled services and use company-controlled communications channels to conduct exchanges that the existing uncontrolled channels were entirely sufficient for. And, for some reason, they decided that those people must know what they were talking about and they'd better start accustoming themselves to this new model and give up everything they were learning how to do...

Time was that the personal computer was supposed be the thing that freed the minds of the ordinary people - now it's becoming the thing that cages them in.
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Offline haywirepc

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2012, 06:51:19 PM »
"now it's becoming the thing that cages them in."

I disagree. If you need to create digital content,  you want a desktop. It enables you to create digital art, music, video, 3d, and more...
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2012, 07:06:17 PM »
Quote from: haywirepc;715890
I disagree. If you need to create digital content,  you want a desktop. It enables you to create digital art, music, video, 3d, and more...
It does, still, at present. What worries me is the push (and it is a push) towards making the "unthinking consumer of content" model the norm on desktops as well as tablets. Somebody in the industry wants this to happen, and a disturbing number of people seem to be pretty much willing to go along with it. They started by clipping the wings of the people who were, hitherto, just branching out into new areas, and now they're trying to push this on everyone...
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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2012, 08:43:20 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;715888
That's a load of crap. People didn't "just want" those things, because they didn't even exist until a few years ago. They wanted to avoid technical nitty-gritty, sure, but the Mac let them do that - but now Apple's the one leading the push towards the new "bovine content consumption" paradigm. Back in the day, even ordinary users were exploring the creative potential of the PC - then somewhere along the way some people started telling them that what they really wanted was to do nothing but consume content on company-controlled services and use company-controlled communications channels to conduct exchanges that the existing uncontrolled channels were entirely sufficient for. And, for some reason, they decided that those people must know what they were talking about and they'd better start accustoming themselves to this new model and give up everything they were learning how to do...

Time was that the personal computer was supposed be the thing that freed the minds of the ordinary people - now it's becoming the thing that cages them in.


Your optimism for the creative potential of humanity is refreshing, but I think a little too overarching.  Look at television, or radio, or video games, or even books.  Mass market and profit = lowest common denominator.  The people who want to create still can, and joe six-pack can twitter about his huge BM.  There's room in there for everyone in their hierarchy.
 

Offline persia

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2012, 09:14:30 PM »
ou can't compare computer users of the '80s with users of today.  Back in the '80s computer users were a self selected minority, maybe 10% of the population of Australia or the US.  Out of those a minority, maybe 10% of those, were doing creative things, but even if you say half of them that's still only 5% of the total populace.  Creative use of computers was never the norm and never will be the norm.

Add to that the fact that you can do creative video, pictures and music on a mobile phone or tablet.  Creativity is an innate ability, I've seen gorgeous photos taken and edited only on an iPhone and I've seen absolute cr@p photos taken with a USD 1000 DSLR and photoshopped.  There are professional photographers out there who only use an iPhone.  The tool is less important than the person wielding the tool.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: The need for "Modern PCs"
« Reply #29 from previous page: November 20, 2012, 09:29:11 PM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;715902
Your optimism for the creative potential of humanity is refreshing, but I think a little too overarching.  Look at television, or radio, or video games, or even books.  Mass market and profit = lowest common denominator.  The people who want to create still can, and joe six-pack can twitter about his huge BM.  There's room in there for everyone in their hierarchy.
See, frankly, I just don't accept this classist bullcrap. A lot of people in the tech world like to think of themselves as some sort of higher order apart from the Masses, as if the ability to think and work in a creative capacity is a difference in kind between themselves and the "Joe Sixpack" cattle. It's not. It's a fundamental human capacity, and the only reason it's languishing in a lot of the masses is because it hasn't been given any encouragement to grow, thanks to an increasingly consumption-oriented economy that only needs creators as a source for content (and they replace creative individuals with formula processes at every opportunity, because formula processes are much more predictable and they've been steadily training the masses not to know the difference, anyway.)

The idea that "Joe Sixpack" is fundamentally lacking in a capacity that the creative elite possess, and therefore he can't make use of complex creative facilities, shouldn't be encouraged to try or given the tools to do so because his simple peasant brain wouldn't understand them, and wouldn't be happy doing any of that anyway, is false. Completely false. It is a lie; it started as a lie that creative people told themselves to make themselves feel special, and it's a lie that's been increasingly propagated by companies and organizations that like to use it as a rationalization for stifling the nascent creative urges of the masses to make them into good little consumers.

Is it harder and riskier to make good movies than crap movies? Well, train moviegoers to not expect good movies, and that's not a problem anymore! Want to cripple a computer into a glorified content-consumption device? Just tell people that that's all they ever wanted anyway, over and over, until they start believing it! And all the tech journalists and all the futurist writers will gladly help you spread this lie, because it feeds their ego.

But you know what? Repetition can make a lie seem true; it can never make it true. People still have the capability to be more than passive consumers, even if it's never been given any nurture; they still have creative urges, even if they're deeply sublimated. All the mantra repetition of "ordinary users don't want or need this" in the world will not change that. The question isn't whether these people can be more than the lowest common denominator; the question is whether anybody will come along and help them wake up from dead-eyed consumer slumber.
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